Mercedes GP W02

[dren]

the pics of the WO 2 are at low speeds ,right? otherwise they have lost their front wing flex somewhere..

Oh boys ...I really loved BAR as a team .I loved Brawn and I love Schumacher ...but this winter my wishes certainly got the better of me and reality is hard to bear....X and Seg were right when i did not want to accept the harsh reality.

Same here with me. There are reasons why the team isn't challenging for wins. Hopefully they turn things around in the next few years.

[marcush.]

no ..not years...I demand a win already next year .I had it on the agenda already for this year and cannot bear the pain any longer.
I understand Mercedes does not believe in their ability to change W02 to turn around the tide,but then an all new W03 with no carry over -save the brilliant 30hp extra engine - and the electronics by MES obviously -will bring on success.
I´m willing to build a carbon fibre shrine for Bell if it pans out like this .

and maybe Norbert could walk over to Ron Dennis and ask how much extra it is to produce something that has a bit of a finish .The car just looks thrown together not very Mercedes.

[Mr.S]

I dont think they are running much lesser rake than last race which is understable because Spa is a low downforce high top speed with mixed weather & plenty of rain type race.

[atanatizante]

It seems like they've tried a new front wing yesterday:
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2011/8/12446.html

[Mr.S]

Yup even the MARK 3 wing or whatever it is called was BELOW PAR. I think Brawn has no idea what he is doing & we are over-hyping mediocre technical inventions. The Mclaren Front wing looks kick-ass, I mean I'm sure it would generate much & I mean much more Front end downforce than the Merc one.

I am sure the U-Shaped sidepods can be very useful as well. Merc are not coming with a single decent invention. THE SWB was horrible. I still dont get the rationale in going for a SWB?? What was supposed to be the benefits??? Decent performance in slow corners??? They have horrible traction & mechanical grip along with HIGH COG. SWB is a complete DUD. Apart from decent starts they are almost NO MAJOR POTENTIAL BENEFITS

[Mr.S]

I still dont get it why they cant experiment with a changed wheelbase. Consider the last few races an experiment for W03 & try out different concepts. Did they not try out a wheelbase change last year as well so what is the problem this year???

[marcush.]

pictures of the new wing detail was already posted here .Difference is the wing adjuster now a lot more intricate and a fence aimed more towards the outside replacing the fence provided by the old adjuster .this fence is more aimed to the outside.The wing as such looks the same.

As for the elongated wheelbase ,last year they stretched tzhe car by moving the front wheels forward.That´s 4 new front whisbones and new frontwingpillars to drag the wing the same distance forward to remain legal /avoid interference of front wheels to wing...Not that big deal.(maybe a bit of detail work in steering and pushrod mounting was also required )
Now on w02 this would do not anything for them a change in wheelbase would only make sense stretching the car in the sidepod area or further back.
So you could either put a spacer between tub and Engine or between engine and gearbox.
The first option does not help much as the rear face of the tub is quite heavily shaped -with the Oiltank recess and possibly a deep cavern low down for the KERS
MGU wich is mounted in the crankcentreline forward I think .So pushing the engine back will open a nasty gap you cannot fill very useful ,as the tank has to be one
volume you can ´t have a secondsone there and putting the KERS batteries there is also a no go as you will have them high up in the car and no gains to the current layout (under the tank) are possible.
Leaves the space between engine and gearbox...elaborate but possible to accomodate the MGU on the backside of the engine and fill the new spacer with batterry packs for the kers.That´s a hell of a conversion -would bringMercedes in the position to have the same layout as RedBull (!) but much more sophisticated AND you can carry over for 2012! They can incorporate the new rear suspension points etc etc ..as the car was weak at the rear anyways that would show them if they have suceeded in making gains with their rearend as well...win win...but no sleep for a lot of people to get it on track.Maybe only possible for the end of seaon testing or the final race.

[Mr.S]

If Mclaren can have a new exhaust in a new week can Mecedes not even try out a new wheelbase in 2-3 months with furthur aero tweaks for the 2012 rules???


Thanx macush but what is the point behind the ridiculous shape of the nose,tapering in & then going out in a thin ugly looking manner.What is the idea behind this ridiculously wide nose outlet with no rods in there???What stupid concept was this based behind in?


I think this whole manpower thing JET has been saying is a complete farce. Mercedes switched their development to W02 3 or 4 months before the rest or atleast were completely into it while others had to split resources. The whole concept & the car is a dog. I think Mercedes got completely carried away basing their assumptions on the fact that without DD the car will automatically be quite a few tenths slower & the pirelli's wont have as much grip as bridgestone's.

We have DRS,KERS & ofcourse teams will come with other ways to make up for the downforce.


For me horrible ideas & poor quality of manpower is to blamed. Bob Bell might solve some of the problems but I dont think he has a magic wand.

[NewtonMeter]

Yup even the MARK 3 wing or whatever it is called was BELOW PAR. I think Brawn has no idea what he is doing & we are over-hyping mediocre technical inventions. The Mclaren Front wing looks kick-ass, I mean I'm sure it would generate much & I mean much more Front end downforce than the Merc one.

I am sure the U-Shaped sidepods can be very useful as well. Merc are not coming with a single decent invention. THE SWB was horrible. I still dont get the rationale in going for a SWB?? What was supposed to be the benefits??? Decent performance in slow corners??? They have horrible traction & mechanical grip along with HIGH COG. SWB is a complete DUD. Apart from decent starts they are almost NO MAJOR POTENTIAL BENEFITS

The rationale, flawed or not, was that it would work with the shorter floor and diffuser. Not saying it was a great idea, just giving the reason.

[marcush.]

Schumacher clearly stated after FP3 that W02 has yet to show if it has more potential than p7/8 in Spa so the ranking of the car in the current field is 4th even on a low downforce track wich is surprising as the car seems to be optinised more in direction of lower drag.
Also this weekend the intermediates do not really work better on the W02 compared to other cars ...as was the case in Canada..It looks like the cars development may erase the few advantages it had ....

WE DON`T KNOW if the short wheelbase is the dog buried in the car .Not everything obvious is also a reason.
Mclaren has by far the longest car and it sports a very unusual sidepod shape.It was deemed impossible to work before this season by several forum members ,who said that Mclaren were in need of a new car and had already started to build it...
So let´s not fall into the trap of thinking that those areas we can see the car is looking different to those who are quick are also the main areas of their problems.
That is a claim we cannot prove.
What we can prove is:For two a good 2 years now Brawn/Mercedes are of the boil and seem to hit a brickwall .The constant being their front wing and everything behind (apart from the engine)has changed ..drivers ,gearbox,Tyre,wheelbase ,Nosecone ,Airbox and what have you but the endresult is the same:
The car is bad on tyres lacks ultimate (qualy) speed and does not perform on full tanks.The positive side is:they fare ok in terms of reliability ,even if they have started to show signs of issues creeping up this year but at least things do not pop up twice in failures .
Mercedes seems to be very slow with developping upgrades -hinting at them having difficulties to pinpoint the reasons for parts or systems not performing competitively.

[Mr.S]

Yea I thought they will do better at tracks like Spa & Monza but seemed Merc is badly loosing out to pace of upgrades of Ferrari,Mclaren & RED Bull. Add to it maybe even Renault with their upgrades might overtake Merc.

Would MSC crashing out allow him to change the car to a set-up more suited to rains. Since he has crashed down he will start from the back & the penalty wont effect him much anyway. JAMIE ALG benefitted too & maybe Michael can squeeze out a few points as well.

[siskue2005]

Yea I thought they will do better at tracks like Spa & Monza but seemed Merc is badly loosing out to pace of upgrades of Ferrari,Mclaren & RED Bull. Add to it maybe even Renault with their upgrades might overtake Merc.

Would MSC crashing out allow him to change the car to a set-up more suited to rains. Since he has crashed down he will start from the back & the penalty wont effect him much anyway. JAMIE ALG benefitted too & maybe Michael can squeeze out a few points as well.

i think as he left the pits he cannot change his setup
but as his car in totaled who would know if they fitted a new suspension and a much shallower rear wing which would favour tomorrow's weather?

[raymondu999]

Nonsense. Anyone, even Vettel can change setup, just that they'll have to start in the pit lane.

[Mr.S]

Maybe he should start in the pit lane. There is not a huge deal of difference between starting on 24th & from the pitlane. If there is a forecast for big rain then he should seriously consider that.

[siskue2005]

Maybe he should start in the pit lane. There is not a huge deal of difference between starting on 24th & from the pitlane. If there is a forecast for big rain then he should seriously consider that.

yes there is
if u start from grid, u can atleast take 4-5 slow cars when u reach the kamel straight
If u start from pitlane it would take atleast 1 lap to overtake 1 car