Mercedes GP 2011

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

There are no "BS" excuses.

Problem here is people want to know why the team aren't winning. I'm putting forward valid reasons why the team aren't winning performing to expectations.
If you look at the there being no technical director for the last 18 months, and a team being misdirected as a result you start to see why certain elements haven't gelled as needed.

Factor in the fact the team reduced in size from 700 + people designing the BGP001 to just over 400 for the W01 and again you see that this will have an adverse effect on operations. Certain departments will be short of what was previously the norm.
Any team going through such a reduction so quickly will suffer as a consequence.
If they don't, please can someone provide a precedent of something like this happening and a team coming out unscathed. Please.

Then we have the inevitable problems arising of new ownership.

You could use red bull as an example, as they needed 5 years to sort out the team and that was with Newey.
If people don't think this is a fair comparison, then they should look at the fact mercedes bought a team that had it's workforce cut by 40%.

My reasoning here is based purely on what the top 3 are doing. If losing this amount of staff didn't have an adverse effect on a team then why oh why have the top 3 not slashed their workforce accordingly?

Mercedes are still the 4th fastest team, and despite what alot think it's still much better than what Honda were doing during the earth car years.
So why others feel blame is the way forward, I choose to think blame culture is of even less use than constructive analysis of why mercedes are missing targets.
They are taking action, we all know that. But expecting this to happen overnight is now a pipe dream.
Expect more of the same for the first half of 2012 too....

[marcush.]

JET,
nobody would claim you could lay off almost 50% of your workforce and go on at the same speed and same quality.
Except Brawn and Fry.
Except Mercedes believing the miracle that was going to happen.
Rosberg and Schumacher tripped into the same hole understandably.
The lack of TD is not something suddenly appearing on the radar.Good people are around and available...Geoff willis now at HRT ..that would have been an obvious candidate..
I don´t know what is worse Brawn believing that he could do what he claimed to be able to with the skeleton remaining after the 2008 winter or selling a bubble to a manufacturer and drawing in his friend MS .Your choice.
Rosberg staying on is a sign of more naivity he should have take the money and run .

[wunderkind]

Marcush,

Why do you think Geoff Willis is capable of becoming a championship winning technical director? His track record after his tenure at Williams is undistinguished at best.

What choice does Rosberg have? McLaren, Red Bull, and Ferrari have no vacancies ATM. Renault does not look like championship material in the short term. Team Willy feeling more and more like Tyrrell of the 1990's.................

[marcush.]

Willis is an Aero guy and he has worked at BAR/Honda as TD in 2001 starting their competitive phase .Honda dropped like a stone after him putting in the cold mid 2006 and departure later that year.In July 2007 he joined RedBull and that would as well perfectly fit with the turnaround of RedBulls fortunes.
originally he followed Newey from Leyton house to Williams where he was promoted joint TD with Gavin Fisher after Newey went to Mclaren.A history with Patrick Head and Newey should not be a bad thing in your curriculum ..
And then look at his beautiful work with HRT .He´s not walking away .No he is doing the best possible given the circumstances and arriving at the track with a car that deserves respect ,considering the go was given on 15th of december 2010...
And of course we share the same birthday as I read .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush,

Brawn sold Mercedes short, we all know that. But lets focus on how to improve rather than belittle Brawn.
Im a hardened Mercedes nut as you well know, but I think in light of the situation at brackley in 2009 Brawn had to bend the truth(lie) to save the place from folding.

People will point at the record turnover, but forget that the team effectively got 2 seasons worth of cash plus 100million in kind from Honda(a nobler act in F1 from an OEM you may never see).
There were little or no sponsors and the team were due to run out of cash by the middle 2010.

Mercedes stepped in under Brawns fairy tale and the jobs were saved.

Im not going to lynch Brawn for that. Im dissapointed for Mercedes but the situation is very far from being a disaster. A dissapointment it is for certain.

[marcush.]

JET, I know it is even more a pain for you then it is for me to see the team still struggling instead of celebrating wins at this time of the year and speculating if Rosberg or Michael could still challenge for the overall win.
Reality is Brawn not only sold Mercedes ,rosberg and Schumacher short,he has failed to realise or ignored the fact the team lacks leadership and guidance to success he cannot provide for reasons we can imagine but not have prove to be fact.
Fact is all Mercdes Formula 1 machinery in the Brawn aera has failed to show competitiveness as required from a Mercedes works outfit and all we hear is excuses and explanations after announcements of increasing competitiveness in the near future.
This is wearing out not only the fans methinks and sad to say but i think Ross should have taken responsibility already at the end of 2010 and resign.They lost another year
with the concept of w02 basically.
compare to Ferrari:Barnard came up with the moron of 1996 and Todt took action started to create a new technical department in Italy.The 1997 contender was good enough to carry the fight to the wire in Schumachers hands but Barnard was repalced by Byrne and Brawn already..and it was a good decision looking at the success this stirrup brought.

[Mr.S]

JET you are in disneyland my friend. I cnat beleive you are buying all this stuff. How does having 100 people less have anything to do with going for a STUPID SWB car. The problem is not quantity,it is QUALITY. Force India is almost close to Mercedes' level with a much shorter manpower,budget,no help from MERCEDES brand as a whole.


Mercedes just do not have the quality people to design a winning car. What can you expect from a bunch of morons who cant even attach a wheel properly??? Justify that too.

[xpensive]

I sent these sentiments of mine to marcush this morning;

- First of all, I have always been suspicious of Ross Brawn and his history of cheating and collusion with MrM. The Benetton traction- and launch control, the wide Ferrari bargeboards, the banning of Renault's mass-dampers and so on.
His obvious failure to show any evidence whatsoever of progress at Honda in 2008 was strange as well.

- The Honda withdrawal is still a mystery to me, after the massive spending during 2008, virtually on three different designs, why decide to leave like that, while paying for 2009 as well? Could it have had something to do with not being happy with connected to the xpected controversy around the DDD, or were they too suckered by Brawn, Fry and MrM to give the team away?

- The way Brawn/MGP ditched the 001 for a completely diffent design for 2009 and again in 2010, clearly speaks of a team without long-term technical strategy. Add a hopeless an oversized management structure to that, where you have no technical director but plenty of administrative xecutives?

- The poor workmanship and attention to detail on the W02 when unveiled, was the definite giveaway that this is not going to fly.

[wunderkind]

I sent these sentiments of mine to marcush this morning;

- First of all, I have always been suspicious of Ross Brawn and his history of cheating and collusion with MrM. The Benetton traction- and launch control, the wide Ferrari bargeboards, the banning of Renault's mass-dampers and so on.
His obvious failure to show any evidence whatsoever of progress at Honda in 2008 was strange as well.

I totally agree with you on the above points.


- The Honda withdrawal is still a mystery to me, after the massive spending during 2008, virtually on three different designs, why decide to leave like that, while paying for 2009 as well? Could it have had something to do with not being happy with connected to the xpected controversy around the DDD, or were they too suckered by Brawn, Fry and MrM to give the team away?


I think Honda panicked. It was either cutting hundreds of staff or quitting F1, they chose the latter.

- The way Brawn/MGP ditched the 001 for a completely diffent design for 2009 and again in 2010, clearly speaks of a team without long-term technical strategy. Add a hopeless an oversized management structure to that, where you have no technical director but plenty of administrative xecutives?

- The poor workmanship and attention to detail on the W02 when unveiled, was the definite giveaway that this is not going to fly.

[Pierce89]

There are no "BS" excuses.

Problem here is people want to know why the team aren't winning. I'm putting forward valid reasons why the team aren't winning performing to expectations.
If you look at the there being no technical director for the last 18 months, and a team being misdirected as a result you start to see why certain elements haven't gelled as needed.

Factor in the fact the team reduced in size from 700 + people designing the BGP001 to just over 400 for the W01 and again you see that this will have an adverse effect on operations. Certain departments will be short of what was previously the norm.
Any team going through such a reduction so quickly will suffer as a consequence.
If they don't, please can someone provide a precedent of something like this happening and a team coming out unscathed. Please.

Then we have the inevitable problems arising of new ownership.

You could use red bull as an example, as they needed 5 years to sort out the team and that was with Newey.
If people don't think this is a fair comparison, then they should look at the fact mercedes bought a team that had it's workforce cut by 40%.

My reasoning here is based purely on what the top 3 are doing. If losing this amount of staff didn't have an adverse effect on a team then why oh why have the top 3 not slashed their workforce accordingly?

Mercedes are still the 4th fastest team, and despite what alot think it's still much better than what Honda were doing during the earth car years.
So why others feel blame is the way forward, I choose to think blame culture is of even less use than constructive analysis of why mercedes are missing targets.
They are taking action, we all know that. But expecting this to happen overnight is now a pipe dream.
Expect more of the same for the first half of 2012 too....

You're love for the team is fooling you into thinking you;re putting foward valid reason's for not winning. When you're Mercedes-Benz, there is only winning or failure. My point is, if all the Mercedes fans give them the slack you're willing to give them, then the the OEM and by extension MGP won't feel the pressure to succeed. They need the devil on their heels forcing them to get faster. When i said BS excuses I wasn't referring to your specific reasons for failure, I was referring to the attitiude of not holding this team accountable. Admit it or not, you JET, have not held this team or especially Brawn accountable for the way they've made an abortion of the past two years.

Also, the headcount is NOT their problem. FI does NOT have even HALF of the resources of MGP yet they're virtually identical on pace. If MGP's and FI had to switch drivers, FI would beat them over a season. That is why there is genuinely blame to be given out without calling it a "blame culture". The team NEEDS accountability especially in the public eye.

[mep]

Great race from Schumacher beating Rosberg from last place.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I see those idiots at mercedes finished a credible 5th and 6th.
Why are these guys even bothering?
Beating a Ferrari and even leading a couple of laps... Wow how disastrous.

Brilliant by Schumacher and about time Eddie Jordan ate his words.

[Mr.S]

I seriously dont think MSC is slow or something like that. Ofcourse Rosberg is quicker in qualifying,Britney is a very good driver though,he has surprised me. I dont think that he is ready for a world title,there are so many things other than speed,If hamilton had half of alonso's brain he would have won more titles. But britney can only get better. I have bashed Rosberg a bit sometimes but it will be very sad if a QUICK PROMISING driver never earns race wins because the car is not quick enough.

Same with MSC. He does deserve a victory atleast. He was at 24th & overtook Nico who started from 5th & went to P1 by one quarter of a lap. By the end of 5-6 laps I think Nico was atleast 10-15 seconds quicker than Michael. AND MSC finished 1 second quicker in the end making through the traffic. CALL it saving new fresh tyres or luck or whatever his race pace is as good as rosberg,sometimes better,sometimes worse but THEY ARE BOTH VERY GOOD RACERS & BOTH PRETTY QUICK in the race.

I think Nico-MSC are saving Mercedes' a**,If it were them in Force India or Renault imagine where Mercedes would have been.

@ JET - They got lucky,you know it. Hamilton blew it or his luck got blown. 6-7-8 would have been their true position. STILL THEY WERE LIKE 30 seconds behind Seb. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE MERCEDES' best trach. LOW DOWNFORCE,HIGH TOP-SPEED,BEST ENGINE & DRS along with a great KERS. MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IS EXPECTED.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

You focus on where they are, I'll focus on where they'll be. They were markedly faster than there supposed opposition, and yet still people find negatives.

It's all very well, jump on the team. Get on and berate them on these pages, I'll take a sabbatical from F1Technical after advanced warnings by Tomba and fairly polarised opinions to my own. Enjoy chucking those tomatoes lads, it's ever so constructive.

[Mr.S]

CHILL JET. Its fun having you around. I am a diehard MSC fan & I will support Mercedes through thick & thin even after MSC retires. You are looking too much at the rosy picture friend.


That is the same crap the team fed us. Hey the weight distribution & tyres didnt suit us. We will make a race winning car.LOOK where it got us,now they are not owning responsibility for this failure & coming up with newer excuses like manpower shortage.

SPA is supposed to be Mercedes strongest track. COME ON. We were 47-48 odd seconds behind. THAT IS MORE THAN 1 second per lap. We were more than 33 seconds behind Alonso. That is like 0.75 seconds per lap. THAT IS TOO MUCH BEHIND. THE TRACK IS SUPPOSED TO SUIT US. THE CAR SHOULD NOT BE MORE THAN 0.5s behind.

P.S. -> We have very few delligent supporters of Mercedes GP & there is no reason to loose a F1 knoledgeable & hardcore fan. CHILL.