McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[marekk]

Downforce...Easier to remove it if its there than adding it.I think they will learn from this and they will be just fine in Monza.They took risk on setup counting on 50-50 conditons or wet.The amount of downforce cant be explained otherwise.

I think beelsebob's point was, how much skinnier can they make the wing when it's already so skinny? McL (and Red Bull, it has to be said) are running so little wing it looks that when their DRS is open, there's no part of the wing that goes vertical. So how much more can they trim for Monza?

Well, by changing the camber of the wing you can go from lets say 400 kg of downforce at 300mk/h and 0 degree AoA down to 0 for symmetrical airfoil.
And changing wing camber from 20% of chord to 10% will be hardly noticable to the naked eye.

[ell66]

Iv noticed the car allways seems to struggle at the beginning of the race on full tanks and then comes on strong, the oposite to the ferrari. Also lewis was weak through sector 1 all weekend, maybe he was runing more df than jenson who said he had a full dry setup.

[Lycoming]

Hamilton was getting mauled on kemmel. kobayashi came back at him massively. I think they can adjust it for monza though, it seems button didnt have the same problem.

[dave34m]

Has anyone seen a decent picture of the damage to Jensens rear wing. Tried to find one but no luck so far

[megasyxx]

here's one from the coverage...

[megasyxx]

Hamilton was getting mauled on kemmel. kobayashi came back at him massively. I think they can adjust it for monza though, it seems button didnt have the same problem.

hammo's car was most likely more dialed in for wet weather - more downforce, more drag. the end result, a lot slower on the long straight.

[raymondu999]

here's one from the coverage...

I wonder if the McLaren doesn't rely too much on their endplates for... anything, really. We've seen that situation before when their endplates take a whallop but they just keep on ticking and coming on strong. For example, Lewis in 2011 Monaco and Button in 2010 Monza

[marcush.]

maybe they put that into the windtunnel and look for drag improvements for 2012?
New invention RBTE -RatBiteTrailingEdge-

It did not seem to slow down Button...

[raymondu999]

You mean an actual jagged trailing edge to the endplate?

[darrensmells]

In a Williams book I have, Patrick Head was saying they tested much smaller rear wing endplates as far back as the mid-80's, but they are kept larger than needed in the regulations so the sponsors get more exposure from the larger surface area.

A similar reason why there are pitstops. The sponsors logos are stationary several times during the race on live TV.

So I was not that surprised that Buttons ruined RWE caused no issues for him. He was lucky when his mirror and fromt wing were damaged though. 6 inches to the left and we could have had another Massa-type incident.

[beelsebob]

In a Williams book I have, Patrick Head was saying they tested much smaller rear wing endplates as far back as the mid-80's, but they are kept larger than needed in the regulations so the sponsors get more exposure from the larger surface area.

A similar reason why there are pitstops. The sponsors logos are stationary several times during the race on live TV.

So I was not that surprised that Buttons ruined RWE caused no issues for him. He was lucky when his mirror and fromt wing were damaged though. 6 inches to the left and we could have had another Massa-type incident.

Heh, this could be a good reason why McLaren wouldn't run no rear wing – Vodaphone would not be chuffed.

[astracrazy]

I haven't followed the thread lately, so perhaps I've missed a beat. But why would they not want to run a rear wing anyway?

[beelsebob]

I haven't followed the thread lately, so perhaps I've missed a beat. But why would they not want to run a rear wing anyway?

Sorry, discussion continuing over a bit from the Monza race thread. I'd made an assertion there that McLaren had too much drag at Spa, even with their hyper-skinny rear wing. Someone asked if it was possible to run wingless (like various old williams' did). A quick check of the rules says yes, though it's not possible to run with only a DRS flap.

[raymondu999]

But a simple static two-plane RW would be, no? Or a simple static single wing for that matter.

I don't get how Lewis could say after the race they had too much df on when their wing was super skinny

[Javert]

But a simple static two-plane RW would be, no? Or a simple static single wing for that matter.

I don't get how Lewis could say after the race they had too much df on when their wing was super skinny

Lewis must decide if they have poor downforce (as said in http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93944) or if they have too much