Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[MikeFromCanada]

Monza will have two DRS zones with 2 detection points. I think the FIA is shooting itself in the foot by putting so much DRS on what is usually the easiest track to overtake on

I disagree with this. Despite having plenty of long straights and very minimal high downforce corners, Monza has typically been a circuit where overtaking is awfully difficult and rare. IIRC, the 2010 Italian GP had only 15 overtakes amongst the whole field, with the majority of them being passes amongst the slower 3 teams. The problem is either yuo cant get close up enough behind the car in front on corner exit (Parabolica) or the upcoming corner only allows for 1 optimum line to be taken (Ascari Chicane, Parabolica). I think the only real way to boost overtaking at this circuit is for the DRS to allow a driver to complet his overtake prior to the corner, and not by overtaking into the corner.

Another thing I wanted to touch on was mentioned somewhere in another thread (possible the Spa Post-Race thread). Does anyone else find it interesting that lately, The McLaren has won at the high downforce tracks (Hungary, Nuburgring) and yet the Red Bull seemed to have the edge at Spa. Could we possibly have seen a role-reversal of some sorts?

[PNSD]

Here comes the disappointing aspect of DRS...

Last year we all witnessed a pretty tense battle with Jenson and Alonso. Alonso later commenting on how well Jenson drove. With DRS that kind of battle will be done with, last year with DRS Alonso would have overtaken and said goodbye.

[MikeFromCanada]

Here comes the disappointing aspect of DRS...

Last year we all witnessed a pretty tense battle with Jenson and Alonso. Alonso later commenting on how well Jenson drove. With DRS that kind of battle will be done with, last year with DRS Alonso would have overtaken and said goodbye.

2 sides to the coin though. I recall some big F1 fans on here saying they had a tough time staying awake during the race.

I'll really be interested to see the wing levels at this race. I really can't see them being much slimmer than what we saw at Spa.

[raymondu999]

To be fair PNSD's point is that we will sorely miss "defensive" battles. Like Imola 05/06 between Schumilonso, and Vettel/Hamilton in Barcelona this year, though to be fair this year they already had DRS. I just hope they don't make it a great big honking one like Canada/Spa where everyone was past before the braking zone

[Robbobnob]

Another thing I wanted to touch on was mentioned somewhere in another thread (possible the Spa Post-Race thread). Does anyone else find it interesting that lately, The McLaren has won at the high downforce tracks (Hungary, Nuburgring) and yet the Red Bull seemed to have the edge at Spa. Could we possibly have seen a role-reversal of some sorts?

I believe that had more to do with the Red Bulls not being able to turn the tires on quick enough on the early laps in the race. The Pace of the McLaren was not so fast that they left the following cars for dead.

Where as at Spa when Vettel got his nose in the lead the only thing holding him back was the lack of pressure from behind

[Gerhard Berger]

Monza will have two DRS zones with 2 detection points. I think the FIA is shooting itself in the foot by putting so much DRS on what is usually the easiest track to overtake on

I disagree with this. Despite having plenty of long straights and very minimal high downforce corners, Monza has typically been a circuit where overtaking is awfully difficult and rare. IIRC, the 2010 Italian GP had only 15 overtakes amongst the whole field, with the majority of them being passes amongst the slower 3 teams. The problem is either yuo cant get close up enough behind the car in front on corner exit (Parabolica) or the upcoming corner only allows for 1 optimum line to be taken (Ascari Chicane, Parabolica). I think the only real way to boost overtaking at this circuit is for the DRS to allow a driver to complet his overtake prior to the corner, and not by overtaking into the corner.

Another thing I wanted to touch on was mentioned somewhere in another thread (possible the Spa Post-Race thread). Does anyone else find it interesting that lately, The McLaren has won at the high downforce tracks (Hungary, Nuburgring) and yet the Red Bull seemed to have the edge at Spa. Could we possibly have seen a role-reversal of some sorts?

Yes the long straights are all preceeded by relatively long corners, where the following driver can not stay close to the car in front. Best overtaking opportunity is probably into the roggia chicane (i think that is where we saw most overtakes last year).

DRS should help things here. I'll be interested to see how much drag they can shed, considering they will be running ultra skinny wings anyway.

I agree with your last point. I think it becomes particularly clear if we look at the sector times from Spa - Mclaren were generally stronger in sector 2, whilst Red Bull were stronger in sectors 1 and 3. I think Red Bull have solved their straight line speed issues - they were one of the fastest through the speed traps in Spa.

[raymondu999]

I think possibly that was me who posted that. I said that this year, the form book, and "expectations' have all been thrown out the window. Races where Red Bull were expected to be dominant were won by Ferrari/McLaren, and races where they were expected to be weak such as Spa, especially in S1 and S3, they were strong, ESPECIALLY in S1 and S3.

In addition, has anyone noticed that the BBC is always correctly predicting the opposite of what will happen? Nurburgring they did a feature of why McLaren is so slow, and Lewis duly stuck it on the front row, AND won the race; in Spa they did a feature of Vettel's drop in results, and he duly won the race and stuck it on pole

[Ferraripilot]

Moving the topic forward to Monza and how this car will be at-home for this circuit. W02 has a few benefits at Monza as it is stable in medium and high speed turns and reaches maximum speed quicker than anyone else. Turn 1 and 2 is the only place where W02 will suffer due to mechanical grip and traction playing a large part there. I can definitely see W02 doing very well. RB will suffer as will Ferrari. This race will be all about MB muscle

[dren]

I expect the W02 to be closer to the competition at Monza, but still a distant 4th best. I think they will have more competition from the Force India cars than from the Renault cars here. If Massa has another off day, then there is the potential for 6th and 7th. The Red Bull is capable of a lot higher top speed compared to last year. The Ferrari in Alonso's hand will be tough to beat. The Mclarens will go well here again.

[Mr.S]

Force India looks wicked on the straight. Probably as quick if not quicker.

So I dont know I expect both of their drivers to make Q3 & maybe one of them to get a Top 6-7 result.

[marcush.]

all tyres fitted both drivers should have no issue getting into Q3 -if they want-
With two DRS zones and one of the quickest cars on the straights arriving at top speed quicker than others the lure of a top 6 qualy is low especially as monza is notorious for first lap mayhem in the first third of the field...
But i think they will go back to the usual pingpong strategy and try to look good in Qualy.
So p6/7/8 has to be minimum target but will they run closer than 8 tenth of as econd? let´s see.I gues both Rosberg and Schumacher sniff the chance of podium with a little kiss of luck and will be eagerly trying to find out if w02 has a strong circuit after all. tractionwise I´m a bit concerned so i thin again the drivers need to perform an impossible trick ,BUT in an ideal world the two should spurr on each other to new heights of car control ,witty race tactics and results impossible for that car.I´m looking forward to it .Schumacher giving Rosberg something to chew on . =D>

[Ferraripilot]

You guys are a tough crowd! Hah. If this season has tought us anything, it's that if W02 has nothing else at all, it has really good top speed. This is Monza, and Monza = top speed. I'm not saying this to be too hopeful, I'm simply being objective. MB engine, great top speed. This race is Mclaren's to lose, but I believe W02 will be competitive.

[marcush.]

If there is a podium waiting for Michael this year ,this is the race to perform a miracle and prove a pig can fly.
Unfortunatelly I don´t think speed alone will cut it.But then historically RedBull had an awful reliability record ..why should they go another race with double points finish ...this will have to stop now .I don´t think both drivers will complete the season without a dnf.

[raymondu999]

Other records have fallen this year marcush. Both drivers have ironed out the wrinkles and inconsistencies in their driving (Mark's not doing much in the winning department, but he's consistent!) and the car has proved super reliable.

@Ferraripilot - they had super top speed last year but still were rubbish around the lap

[marekk]

Renaults are good in quick corners this year and not bad top speed either. Geared to short in Spa, but if Senna can confirm his speed, they can challenge at least MB at Monza.