Mercedes GP 2011

[Mr.S]

That's how they finished 9th in the constructors is it?

That is also how they finished 2nd with 10 PODIUM in a single season

[marcush.]

If i remember correctly Brawn had the option to run Ferrari engines but decided very late to opt for Mercedeswho even had offered the Mclaren box to speed up the adaption .

Brawn surely played the whistle back then already raving about the new car and inching Mercedes into that deal step by step.
the mistake was that he forgot to tell them that Wo1 would not be as competitive as BGP001 as trjhat would require a development team -which he was in the process of slaughtering ..I think he offered the whole shebang very early and Mercedes pulled of like:
win the title and we have a deal goin but the thing must not exceed this and this money as otherwise we cannot sell it to the unions and the workers reps.
And anyways who needs 700headcount .we have it all in Stuttgart .If you have any trouble just ask.
Err we have no TD because of that..Ross you can do that as you did before in Maranello .Your guys know howw to build quick cars and if there is an issue ....we should share the same system so first step is to change to Enovia /Catia V5 so we can design an integrated solution Brackley,Sindelfingen and MHPE contributing.

btw ..KERS in 2009 was a Zytel product.According to Zytek -as published in Hybrid+EV mag has no current involvement in Formula 1...so who is doing their KERS and WHERE is the development ??? I think Mclaren ,force India and Mercedes share all components is this confirmed?

[mep]

As you say that marcush I remember Lauda has asked multiple times why there was no Mercedes Star printed on the Brawn cars when Haug replied this situation will be changed soon.

[marcush.]

I don´t understand .
I´m absolutely sure Brawn is fired already in Australia ..when they had all the kers trouble...but no it was announced ...blabla and nothing happened.
There must be something underlying there -him pointing at the situation from early on but Mercedes turning down the necessary measurements or whatever..

[xpensive]

I'm certain that Brawn and Small Fry had attorneys smart enough to add some job-security clause to the contract when selling BGP to Daimler, that's the only xplanation I can find for them to be around? Brawn's litany of xcuses are surely made up elsewhere.

[marcush.]

X-if you were Brawn and had lucked into owning a works team ,a car capablöe of winning a F1championship ,the silverware as well and had found someone willing to buy it for a huge chunk of money so you shoulf have enough for the remaining days ...would you really force the issue and say :I will sell only if my job as principal is secure for another 3 years? Knowing or at least having a cast of doubt W01 had not received the attention needed to produce a winner ...you think Fry or Brawn not realised what they had done to the company in the winter?
I would have taken the money and retire .
Is it possible that even Brawn let all this get the better of him..Schumacher coming in ...dream team reunited ,more titles... who needs the best car when you got schumi?..these are all maniacs and their drug is racing ...it sometimes blurrs your vision ,i understand that all too well.

[munudeges]

Yes, Merc did buy the team on that basis – they bought it on the basis that they were a back end team that had improved their car to a mid field one

Errrrr, no, they didn't. They bought it on the basis that it was a winning team because..........they were winning.

[beelsebob]

Yes, Merc did buy the team on that basis – they bought it on the basis that they were a back end team that had improved their car to a mid field one

Errrrr, no, they didn't. They bought it on the basis that it was a winning team because..........they were winning.

If you think the guys at Merc were so dumb that they couldn't see that winning was down to the clever DDD trick only, and that the car was in reality a mid field car, then you've got another thing coming.

[Richard]

It works both ways. If you are buying a team who have just recruited the man who's won more WCC than anyone else, then you'd want to ensure he stayed on to help build your new team wouldn't you?

[dren]

Makes sense to me.

[munudeges]

If you think the guys at Merc were so dumb that they couldn't see that winning was down to the clever DDD trick only, and that the car was in reality a mid field car, then you've got another thing coming.

You might know that, I might know that and other people who've said it on this forum might know that but Merc certainly didn't. They are that dumb, as a succession of manufacturers running teams have proved. The fact is that the car was winning and the double diffuser was still around in 2010 that they had a substantial lead on.

[Mr.S]

BRAWN GP was a very good car. EVEN without DD it was better than what merc is this year. Remember Ferrari & Mclaren had KERS which gives what 0.3-0.4-0.5 s depending on the track & still BRAWN GP were ahead despite that,even in the second half.

In the second half most major teams had DD but Brawn hung on got useful podiums. The front wing was very good too, reason why Merc used it for 3 years,even this year. It was the best front wing that year. Let's not get into this whole DD thing.

This whole debate doesn't work. In that case most of the title winning cars in F1 suck. Without EBD look at the state of Mclaren or even Red Bull, I doubt they will win a single race.They will be scratching at podiums like Brawn did. This is how it happens in Formula1,you have ONE really BIG & game-changing stuff which makes you stand out & challenge for victories.

[beelsebob]

BRAWN GP was a very good car. EVEN without DD it was better than what merc is this year. Remember Ferrari & Mclaren had KERS which gives what 0.3-0.4-0.5 s depending on the track & still BRAWN GP were ahead despite that,even in the second half.

No, it gives them 0.3-0.5 seconds a lap this year when weight distribution is fixed, and you get no advantage from not running KERS. In 09 it was much more border line, because not having KERS allowed you to do much more with ballast. And the McLaren was a clearly faster car by the second half of the year.

[marcush.]

clearly Brawn had a very good reputation coming from his sabbatical.everyone considered him the right man to turn things around with Honda.
when it was announced they would give up on the 2008 car and concentrate on 2009 this was not seen as a weakness but a strength of Brawn .The 2009 happenings cemented the view that Brawn was the guy who turned things around.Restructering everything.
The question now is if this can be as now in 2011 we need another restructure ,after a restructure during 2010?
They offer jobs asking for people who can INTRODUCE best working practrise methods to the team...introduce methods to enable the team to arrive at full traceability not only with parts but also with processes....
Makes me doubt if Brawn really is what we think he is .Maybe he was the head but did not really have in depth knowledge how things go in a 500+team structure but could rely on people doing their job and let him shine to keep their back covered.

[xpensive]

The curious thing is that BGP's chief designer, Jörg Zander, left on June 19 2009, just after Jenson Button had won four in a row and his sixth of the season. I think Zander, who had his degree from Cologne University, had seen through Ross Brawn by then?