Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[Gerhard Berger]

sorry I beg to differ there...
You got turn3 Biassono with 260 entry and 305km/h apex the two lesmos with approach speeds of 260 and of course you got parabolica ...
The question is would you lose more acceleration through drag penalty or gain more through traction advanatages ...mind you there are three chicaanes where you need to have good traction wich is of course enhanced by aero forces as well...

F duct and DRS are equivalents in what they achieve the difference is obviously availability.

Like raymondu said, Curva Grande is easily flat. You are right that the 2 Lesmos are quick corners, but they are quite short too. Parabolica is one corner where downforce is crucial.

There is no question though - teams have been coming to Monza with ultra skinny wings since forever - the drag penalty of running a higher downforce setup is just too much compared to the gains you would make in the corners.

I think we only have to look at Cananda this year (a track with similar characterisitcs to Monza) to see that running a bigger rear wing does not pay dividends, even with DRS. Mclaren were significantly slower than the Red Bulls and Ferraris in qualifying.

[Lycoming]

I think we only have to look at Cananda this year (a track with similar characterisitcs to Monza) to see that running a bigger rear wing does not pay dividends, even with DRS. Mclaren were significantly slower than the Red Bulls and Ferraris in qualifying.

This is true. Its worth noting that they ran that extra wing to give themselves more of a "wet" setup, not to gain lap time in qualifying. this also supports the idea that more DF will not be the ticket to success.

[marcush.]

Canada is a lot slower than Monza and basically has no quick corners ....so in what is it similar ....maybe the park atmoshere a bit and longish straights .Canada is severe on brakes and brake cooling Monza is severe on engine full throttle max load.

[beelsebob]

Canada is a lot slower than Monza and basically has no quick corners ....so in what is it similar ....maybe the park atmoshere a bit and longish straights .Canada is severe on brakes and brake cooling Monza is severe on engine full throttle max load.

Last I checked Monza had just as many big stops as Canada – canada into the hairpin and chicane, Monza into its two tight chicanes and two fairly heavy ones into ascari and the parabolica.

[raymondu999]

I would have thought that Canada Sectors 1 and 2 would benefit a lot more from heavy downforce than Monza would;

[beelsebob]

I would have thought that Canada Sectors 1 and 2 would benefit a lot more from heavy downforce than Monza would;

Agreed, not arguing that canada isn't higher DF. But Monza is just as harsh on the breaks.

[HampusA]

Anyone know the % of full throttle around the tracks?

[raymondu999]

Anyone know the % of full throttle around the tracks?

MGP reports 75%. Or 73. I forget.

I would have thought that Canada Sectors 1 and 2 would benefit a lot more from heavy downforce than Monza would;

Agreed, not arguing that canada isn't higher DF. But Monza is just as harsh on the breaks.

I know. I was responding to Marcush's comment.

[Gerhard Berger]

Canada is a lot slower than Monza and basically has no quick corners ....so in what is it similar ....maybe the park atmoshere a bit and longish straights .Canada is severe on brakes and brake cooling Monza is severe on engine full throttle max load.

Long straights and heavy braking zones.

I feel you are arguing just for the sake of it. Teams won't go for a high downforce setting at Monza - it's always been like that!

[raymondu999]

F duct and DRS are equivalents in what they achieve the difference is obviously availability.

Yes, but a large part of what made Jenson's strategy in 2010 work was that they had infinite availability of the f-duct even in the races; which allowed them to shed drag for every straight. That won't happen here in this year.

[HampusA]

And you could argue the strategy did not work as he did not win the race.

Thanks, was that number for Canada or Monza or both?

[HampusA]

Found this for Monza, from Mario Theissen,

"Overall, Monza has the highest full throttle ratio of all Grand Prix circuits at 68 percent,"
This was in 2004 = V10´s shorter time spent on straights = less time on full throttle.

70% reported in an article from this year.

Just under 60% of full throttle in Canada when Alonso was at Renault with Piquet.

[raymondu999]

Well my circuit data from BMW says Monza is 70%. MGP says Monza is 75 or 73 %.

[HampusA]

Must be different years. What year is the circuit data from?

[raymondu999]

It's a BMW piece; I think from 2004 If I'm not mistaken.