Mercedes GP 2011

[xpensive]

...
I can't understand the thinking behind any team structure these days I've seen apart from Red Bull. It's very simple, it's very obvious how it works and it's obvious what the skills of those involved are.

Not being updated on the Red bull organization, but from my humble xperience I'd like to see a multidicipline TD or CTO,
the Barnard or Newey kind, with managers for each department, chassis, aerodynamics, simulation etc, reporting to him.

The way Ferrari is set up, with those departments reporting directly to Domenicali, I completely fail to understand.

[munudeges]

Skills-wise, what is Costa's speciality? I don't really understand what his specialism is apart from 'he'd be a positive addition' for a team that already has a Technical Director. They need two solid aerodynamic and mechanical heads IMO to replace what obviously isn't working there and personally I would go to Renault to get them.

[munudeges]

Not being updated on the Red bull organization, but from my humble xperience I'd like to see a multidicipline TD or CTO, the Barnard or Newey kind, with managers for each department, chassis, aerodynamics, simulation etc, reporting to him.

Red Bull have a Technical Director, obviously someone who has a slant towards aerodynamics and someone who you really can't bull, a head of aerodynamics and a chief designer who has a very good mechanical track record. The whole area of expertise is slanted towards aerodynamics but Newey obviously understands that he needs a good mechanical engineering head to lean on in building the car to make the aerodynamics work.

It's a pretty simple triumvirate of heads of various areas with records in their area of expertise, and considering how well they're doing you can't say it doesn't work. The politics evident at most teams is going to have to be put to one side if anyone is going to beat it IMO.

The way Ferrari is set up, with those departments reporting directly to Domenicali, I completely fail to understand.

I don't understand it either and personally I think it has deliberately worked out that way so no one really takes ultimate responsibility for the car with there being no defined technical head. I'm puzzled as to how Pat Fry got into the mix as well. It's indicative of the pressure everyone is under at that team I think and you really can't see it working out.

[dren]

I can't see how Ferrari would really be structured that way. It doesn't make sense.

[Pierce89]

I think you need to re-read that paragraph because it does not paint the impression of progress that you want it to. Trying to effectively ignore 2009 doesn't seem like a good idea because 2009 was the basis on which Mercedes bought the team and Schumacher got involved. To have a half season lead on everyone and then throw it away is not progress.

Yes, Merc did buy the team on that basis – they bought it on the basis that they were a back end team that had improved their car to a mid field one – a good improvement, and well worth investing in. They have now hit a wall trying to break into the top 3 – this is not unusual, in the past 20 odd years only really RedBull have been able to beat McLaren and Ferrari consistently. Getting stuck here is nothing to be ashamed of (though it doesn't mean they shouldn't strive to do better).

You can't honestly believe Merc bought this team because they improved to the midfield. They bought it because Honda had facilities technology to rival anyone and they could get allegedly championship quality team on the cheap. They bought this team because Brawn sold them a bill of goods. They thought they were buying a team that was already at the top, if they knew they would do no better than fourth in the standings in 2010-11 with only one or two podiums, I don't think they would've have publicly bought it outright. I think that if Merc knew they would have to really build this team to even get close to comnpetitve then they probably would have ramped up ownership over a longer period then changing from BGP to MGP only after a successful build up. This is what I would've preferred. I hate to see Mercedes' and Rosberg's names dragged through the mud

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Pierce

Go back to 2009 and see the environment F1 was in. The 40million budget cap porposals where scrapped on the premise of a decline in F1 staffing.
Mercedes bought into this as much as they did into a championship winning "skeletal" team.

No one on these pages actually saw the RRA agreements that were signed by the teams. We also dont know how the FIA intended to enforce such legislation.
What it does outline though is very stark, that Mercedes werent willing to expand team number beyond their current threshold if it meant they had to embark on job cuts 1 or 2 years later.

Another point I have made various times, but is as of yet unanswered is this: Why if having the job cuts will not affect team operations in a negative fashion, have the top 3 teams not followed suit in slashing thier workforce to Mercedes GP levels?

I think its fairly obvious the answer is because it would have a negative impact on car performance.
Hence why Mercedes are now upping the ante to top 3 levels of staffing for 2012.

No magic bullet there of course. But if you want to compete, you need numbers. Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren are all monuments to that.

As for the management hyperbole, who really knows how the inside of an F1 team really works? With all the egos and eccentrics under one roof, what works for one will almost certainly not work for the other.
My 2 cents is take Newey out of the Red Bull management structure and they start looking as flimsy as everyone else.

[Mr.S]

This is at present Mercedes' structure :-

Mercedes GP W02
Team: John Owen (CD), Loic Bigois (HA), Craig Wilson (Head of Vehicle Eng. & Dynamics), Russell Cooley (CE), Ross Brawn (TP), Nick Fry (CEO), Norbert Haug (VP), Thomas Fuhr (MD), Rob Thomas (COO)


Well Bob Bell has slotted in as Technical Director.I see no reason why Aldo Costa cant come in say Head of Vehicle Engg. & Dynamics replacing Craig Wilson or as Chief Designer replacing John Owen.


I am not sure if they can produce championship winning cars & if Aldo Costa is an uprage then why not???

I would love to see Prodromou replacing Loic Bigois as Head of Aerodynamics but I guess the chances of him coming to Mercedes is negligible.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Its neither here nor there IMO

The same way in football where you HAVE to play a striker, Barcelona are smashing everyone without one. There is no right or wrong approach here, so long as it works.

The importance is what Costa would bring to the team. Perhaps somewhere in Brackley they can find use for a guy who was Ferrari's point man for 4 years...

[Ferraripilot]

I would love to see Prodromou replacing Loic Bigois as Head of Aerodynamics but I guess the chances of him coming to Mercedes is negligible.

Where have you heard this? There was a blurb regarding Prodromou last July from an Italian publication and that has in essence been all I have been able to find since.

[Mr.S]

I would love to see Prodromou replacing Loic Bigois as Head of Aerodynamics but I guess the chances of him coming to Mercedes is negligible.

Where have you heard this? There was a blurb regarding Prodromou last July from an Italian publication and that has in essence been all I have been able to find since.

I heard he was not very happy at Red Bull & was thinking of quiting. I have heard nothing linking him to MERC,just plain wishful thinking.

[munudeges]

The RRA excuses have been de-constructed fairly thoroughly and there is nothing more that can be added to them.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The RRA excuses have been de-constructed fairly thoroughly and there is nothing more that can be added to them.

Care to recap?

[xpensive]

I can't see how Ferrari would really be structured that way. It doesn't make sense.

No it doesn't, but here it is;

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns23242.html

"In a technical restructuring, Pat Fry, who joined Ferrari from McLaren, will become director for the chassis side, with Corrado Lanzone responsible for production and Luca Marmorini in charge of engine and electronics, all three reporting directly to team principal Stefano Domenicali.

Nobody, therefore, has been directly appointed to the role of overall technical director to replace Costa."

[marcush.]

Costa is a mechanical engineering guy and pulished a piece about formula 1 suspension systems when studying.
So one would think his strength is the mechanical side of the ship.
As I understand Bell is an Aero guy ...so on that base they could possibly be a good pairing.
For Costa it seems to be his preferred style of work ...having shared duties for long time with Brunner at Minardi and Byrne at Ferrari ..maybe he justz does not want to be the single guy bearing all responsibility.

[Ferraripilot]

I would love to see Prodromou replacing Loic Bigois as Head of Aerodynamics but I guess the chances of him coming to Mercedes is negligible.

Where have you heard this? There was a blurb regarding Prodromou last July from an Italian publication and that has in essence been all I have been able to find since.

I heard he was not very happy at Red Bull & was thinking of quiting. I have heard nothing linking him to MERC,just plain wishful thinking.

The Italian publication in July specifically linked him with MB, but of course validity of such journalism is always in question. I suppose that's how rumors are started right