Mercedes GP 2011

[Ferraripilot]

Mercedes maybe a distant fourth at the moment. But it's on it's way of becoming a championship-contending team.

Absolutely. They have the right people behind it

[munudeges]

I was just commenting on the some of the previous posts regarding Bell and Gascoyne working together.

If you'd had a look at the background of both men and their CVs before commenting then you would have realised that both Bell and Gascoyne have worked together on many occasions in the past, from their brief time at McLaren together, Benetton, Jordan and the resurgence in Renault into a winning team. It's a very strong connection.

Why would bell be leaving mercedes and go to a lesser outfit such as team lotus? It doesn't make sense.

Why did such an esteemed engineer like Gascoyne go to a new team that he had to build from scratch? Why did he leave the political mess of the Toyota team and the resources they had? Why did Adrian Newey go to Red Bull from McLaren, when Red Bull really was the burned out ashes of the Jaguar team and everyone was sniggering at him? Why do esteemed engineers like James Key and Ascanelli stay at places like Sauber and Torro Rosso?

The answer is the challenge that they represent and the opportunity to be in control of their own destinies free of the politics that such engineering characters simply do not like. That counts for a great deal, and money while important is not everything which is why it is so difficult for a team like Mercedes to attract people.

[munudeges]

Costa was never a hands on complete FACTORY based Technical Director,neither is an aero specialist as that is the most important thing in today's cars. Costa is more of a manager with his speciality being the mechanical side & he could easily slot in as the HEAD of VEHICLE ENGINEERING.

I have no real idea what this nonsense is supposed to mean, but if you are saying that Costa was never a 'hands-on' Technical Director then it's small wonder Ferrari ended up getting rid of him. Not being 'hands-on' in a straight forward role of 'Head of Vehicle Engineering' is even worse. You can't be in those positions without being 'hands-on', telling people what's going to happen and saying "This is what we're going to do with the car". What you've got otherwise is someone masquerading in a role he is not qualified to do.

You do love plucking job titles out of the air though, I'll give you that.

I just also wish Prodromou joins Merc somewhere down the road as Head of Aerodynamics as Merc is badly behind in aerodynamics.

Why would someone like Promodrou go to Mercedes, effectively doing the same job he's doing now in a far, far worse environment?

[Mr.S]

I am putting it on record here. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for Lotus,Sauber or Torro Rosso to ever challenge for wins with the same resource.

THAT IS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH & THE BOTTOMLINE. The only reason people liek Gascoyne went is because they have somewhat of a big ego & they would be a big fish in a small pond rather than be a small fish in a big point. They want power to run a team or to be fully responsible for all technical decisions without having to answer to anybody.Besides they know that any meagre success with such petty teams will be praised. But any minor failure in a major team will abused & every misake disected.

Where is Sauber currently???Probably the worst of the mid-field teams at present barely making Q2.That is the truth,as Peter Sauber said with there resources & 250 odd people & such a budget they will never be able to challenge for big points. SAUBER IS NOWHERE & probably in the same position as last year. Just that Williams have taken a major backward step.

[Mr.S]

Costa was never a hands on complete FACTORY based Technical Director,neither is an aero specialist as that is the most important thing in today's cars. Costa is more of a manager with his speciality being the mechanical side & he could easily slot in as the HEAD of VEHICLE ENGINEERING.

I have no real idea what this nonsense is supposed to mean, but if you are saying that Costa was never a 'hands-on' Technical Director then it's small wonder Ferrari ended up getting rid of him. Not being 'hands-on' in a straight forward role of 'Head of Vehicle Engineering' is even worse. You can't be in those positions without being 'hands-on', telling people what's going to happen and saying "This is what we're going to do with the car". What you've got otherwise is someone masquerading in a role he is not qualified to do.

You do love plucking job titles out of the air though, I'll give you that.

I just also wish Prodromou joins Merc somewhere down the road as Head of Aerodynamics as Merc is badly behind in aerodynamics.

Why would someone like Promodrou go to Mercedes, effectively doing the same job he's doing now in a far, far worse environment?

1 - What I mean a hands on guy is probably not the one in the literary sense. He was never a 1 man army like Newey was calling all the shots.

2 - You do realize you are trolling in an effort to humiliate Mercedes.

3 - Prodromou can possibly get a bigger pay,more plum facilities & scope now that he will be associated with a marketing major like Mercedes. Red Bull is not a factory team & there are certain priveleges which a major automobile giant like Mercedes can give. Also it will be very tough for him to move up the ladder with Newey at the helm in Red Bull,not as difficult in Mercedes.

Add this to the fact the team here in question is MERCEDES & it is only a matter of time before they get to the top. Then you have a living legend Michael Schumacher racing & the lure of building that team & taking that team from 4th to teh top.

[Mr.S]

Costa was never a hands on complete FACTORY based Technical Director,neither is an aero specialist as that is the most important thing in today's cars. Costa is more of a manager with his speciality being the mechanical side & he could easily slot in as the HEAD of VEHICLE ENGINEERING.

I have no real idea what this nonsense is supposed to mean, but if you are saying that Costa was never a 'hands-on' Technical Director then it's small wonder Ferrari ended up getting rid of him. Not being 'hands-on' in a straight forward role of 'Head of Vehicle Engineering' is even worse. You can't be in those positions without being 'hands-on', telling people what's going to happen and saying "This is what we're going to do with the car". What you've got otherwise is someone masquerading in a role he is not qualified to do.

You do love plucking job titles out of the air though, I'll give you that.

I just also wish Prodromou joins Merc somewhere down the road as Head of Aerodynamics as Merc is badly behind in aerodynamics.

Why would someone like Promodrou go to Mercedes, effectively doing the same job he's doing now in a far, far worse environment?

Why should it be worse???

MERCEDES >>>>>>>>>>> RED BULL & MCLAREN.

How many titles did Mclaren win???3 in 15 years???? Considering that stat Mclaren are horrible as well. Compared to Ferrari's 6 titles they have won only 3. 3 titles in 15 years.

[munudeges]

I am putting it on record here. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for Lotus,Sauber or Torro Rosso to ever challenge for wins with the same resource.

That might be how you view things but a lot of well regarded engineers work for those teams and they've jumped ship from so called winning teams and disastrous manufacturer teams with lots of resources to go there.

I'm afraid you're filling this thread with total nonsense.

Promodrou already has plum facilities, he's getting paid very well, he's in a straightforward winning team and he has no political nonsense to deal with. Once again I ask why a highly regarded engineer would go to work in a disaster of a team with lots of political baggage to do exactly the same job where someone who is less qualified than him in Costa could possibly come in over him as boss?

You might think that putting the name MERCEDES in CAPITALS is enough to make that happen, but unfortunately in the real world it simply isn't. There's plenty of examples of highly rated engineers jumping ship from teams with excellent facilities and good money because they don't like the work environment.

[munudeges]

MERCEDES >>>>>>>>>>> RED BULL & MCLAREN.

So, the whole premise of your argument is that you believe that Mercedes is several times greater than teams like Red Bull and McLaren because they're...........MERCEDES?! In capital letters, no less.

I think we'll stop right there.

[Mr.S]

MERCEDES >>>>>>>>>>> RED BULL & MCLAREN.

So, the whole premise of your argument is that you believe that Mercedes is several times greater than teams like Red Bull and McLaren because they're...........MERCEDES?! In capital letters, no less.

I think we'll stop right there.

Mercedes are a premium manufacturer & if they are serious about winning they will be winning.

5 years down the line it will be Ferrari vs Mercedes,two huge automobile giants & factory based teams with their own engines.

[Mr.S]

I am putting it on record here. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for Lotus,Sauber or Torro Rosso to ever challenge for wins with the same resource.

That might be how you view things but a lot of well regarded engineers work for those teams and they've jumped ship from so called winning teams and disastrous manufacturer teams with lots of resources to go there.

I'm afraid you're filling this thread with total nonsense.

Promodrou already has plum facilities, he's getting paid very well, he's in a straightforward winning team and he has no political nonsense to deal with. Once again I ask why a highly regarded engineer would go to work in a disaster of a team with lots of political baggage to do exactly the same job where someone who is less qualified than him in Costa could possibly come in over him as boss?

You might think that putting the name MERCEDES in CAPITALS is enough to make that happen, but unfortunately in the real world it simply isn't. There's plenty of examples of highly rated engineers jumping ship from teams with excellent facilities and good money because they don't like the work environment.

Political baggage??Disastrous team??

Look I think you are a troll, a complete non-sensical troll who is either doing this intentionally to anger any Merc or you know nothing about Formula 1.

Mercedes is an automobile giant,a factory based team which was in Formula 1 in the 50's winning, produces the best engine of the class & has been associated with Mclaren winning 3 WDC titles. Add Brawn & MSC it is a matter of time before they start winning.

James Key??? James Key's Sauber is the 4th or 5th worst car of the season ahead of the last 3.

LOTUS is a complete screw up. The team has gone nowhere. Is Virgin & HRT are serious maybe they will beat Lotus soon. The so-called step into the midfield has gone nowhere & all they have done is they have taken a minor step forward ahead of VIRGIN-HRT.

Do you think it is theoretically possible with SAUBER with inferior engines,inferior manpower,250 compared to 600 & inferior driver line up(Kobayashi-Senna compared to Hamilton-button) to be a race winning team.

Any person with average intelligence knows the answer to that. For all you bashing of Mercedes they are a solid 4th,with 2 consecutive 4th finishes despite having no TD & the lack of manpower. Both times a Ferrari driver have finished behind a Mercedes while Lotuses & Saubers are being lapped.

[Mr.S]

The so-called highly rated engineers is the stupid logic I have ever heard. You need competent drivers,loads of money, a competend Technical Director & engineer & you need engine & resources.

From simulator facilities to manpower to rescources to a superior engine & driver Mercedes is so ahead it is not funny.

As a matter of fact Mclaren is equally disatrous if it gets stuck behind a Mercedes car for half the race & Ferrai for having a driver finish behind Mercedes. Weird considering Mercedes is a horribly managed disastrous team who will throw in the towel & Mclaren barely beating them & one of Ferrari's drivers beating them..

Shows Mclaren & Ferrari's quality. Maybe tomorrow you will have some qualified engineers go to HRT & VIRGIN & they will beat this semi-disastrous teams like Mclaren & Ferrari.

[marcush.]

prodroumo would go to Merc if he was unhappy for some reason at rbr
he would go there for incentives and personal sanity -eg truckloads of money pension etc
or he would go there to be the man who turned things around !
At RedBull he will always be one of many but Newey will be regarded as the brain of the sucess ...it could well be that marshall and peter are under the impression they could do just as well without him... it´s a question of ego and personal goals.some are very happy to fight in the second row or bound to a wingman position.

[marcush.]

Strangely Rosberg has scored a lot worse than last year -roughly half the points bagged compared to 2010 -thus far when Michael is actually up on his score ..till race 13 and keeping Nico in sight.
Mercedes has had one dnf for each driver till race 13 and 1 respectivevly 4 non points scoring events when this year there is already 5 dnfs between the two drivers and 5 non scoring finishes as well.so it´s been the same story with non scoring events 3 up in terms of DNFs..the season start with both cars wiped out in accidents and Schumachers car giving up in Monaco and Hungary and Rosbergs unlucky hit this weekend.
so the higher dnf rate is owed solely to the accidents and the two technical issues (last year both owed to wheels coming loose) now this year both times Schumacher with technical issues -electric/injection and hydraulics ..

[Cocles]

MERCEDES >>>>>>>>>>> RED BULL & MCLAREN.

So, the whole premise of your argument is that you believe that Mercedes is several times greater than teams like Red Bull and McLaren because they're...........MERCEDES?! In capital letters, no less.

I think we'll stop right there.

Mr. S put all three team names in CAPS. I'd call that undeniable proof, munudeges, that you're only seeing what you want to see in these posts.

Haters gonna hate.

[Pierce89]

MERCEDES >>>>>>>>>>> RED BULL & MCLAREN.

So, the whole premise of your argument is that you believe that Mercedes is several times greater than teams like Red Bull and McLaren because they're...........MERCEDES?! In capital letters, no less.

I think we'll stop right there.

Mr. S put all three team names in CAPS. I'd call that undeniable proof, munudeges, that you're only seeing what you want to see in these posts.

Haters gonna hate.

out of this little series, Munudeges is only on who has made any sense.I'm a Merc fan and I think the reluctance to criticize this team is ridiculous