Mercedes GP W02

[munudeges]

Yes, it would tend to be, given they're using the same car with the same aero characteristics...

......in relation to other Mercedes powered teams and performance differences between them. I shouldn't need to spell this out quite so specifically. You obviously can't just compare Mercedes to themselves at every circuit they've been to because that would be pointless. That's why I threw in the comparison between the Renault powered teams.

[Lycoming]

you missed the point of my post. There is no evidence. the consistency is the result of nothing more than a consistent philosophy by merc GP. If they really were getting weaker engines, Mclaren would have said something. It would be known, as it was with the ford engines way back in the day.

[Intego]

the only reason they got more speed put of the speed trap because they gained more out of DRS in qualy because they had more drag to loose.

I read this strange logic several times, it's not necessarily right. According to that HRT should have won with a Monaco spec wing, because then DRS is more effective.
Example:
a) 10–2=8
b) 20-5=15
b) looses more drag than a), but also has more drag left.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

There are some absolutely absurd posts pertaining to the differences in speed of the W02 and McLaren.

What is so "suspicious" about mercedes being quicker in a straight-line? Does the barn door rear wing not give it away!?

The whole W02 concept revolves around the car being bullet like in a straight-line. This has been covered from the very start of the the thread.
If there is any engine discreprancy, McLaren would know about it. Or are they not advanced enough to know the difference?
Absolute joke that this is F1technical, and there is this bonkers tripe muddying the thread.

[Intego]

That's why I threw in the comparison between the Renault powered teams.

Renault only delivers engines, Lotus Renault GP is just the name that's left. A comparison isn't reasonable.

McLaren has much more to say than just "16 engines please". They would have said sth. E. g. they have stopped a possible Red Bull Mercedes with their veto last year. It's a result from the era when Mercedes held shares and suddenly wanted to stand on their own (or Ross') feet.

[marcush.]

the top speed difference is 339 for Schumacher compared to 333 for both Mclarens.
compare this with 347 for Senna,334.5 for Webber,332 for Trulli,329.5 for Kovalainen and 327.4 for Vettel...

obviously Vettel had enough Horsepower to win the race and drive at a very competitive speed laptimewise the quickest laps of Senna and Vettel differed only by 3tenths of a second but their Topspeeds were 20kmh apart.

Hamilton and Button had 6kmh less on the straights but 1.2 seconds better laptimes over Schumacher ...so gearingwise they were not that far from each other but Schumacher has a fair bit less drag so is reaching his slightly better top speed much earlier.
I think this is explaining what we saw well enough .

Button is confirming this in his post race analysis:

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 91151.html

They were running out of revs on the pit straight ,but the shorter gearing was a big advantage in the run to Ascari .

[xpensive]

...
Sometimes when you build engines there are some differences in performance so Mercedes took the best ones.

My gosh Humpster, you got a point there, now why didn't I think of that? Oh but wait, I think I did, didn't I?

[HampusA]

...
Sometimes when you build engines there are some differences in performance so Mercedes took the best ones.

My gosh Humpster, you got a point there, now why didn't I think of that? Oh but wait, I think I did, didn't I?

that was irony... based on your ridiculous assesments without any facts that so is the case..

If i remember you spat the word 50 horsepower? Ever thought about doing comedy?
You are very good at improv that´s for sure.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

X, congratulations.

This will be my last post on F1technical, as I see serious discussion replaced with attempts at rubbishing anything mercedes. There is zero respect for what these people(vastly more talented than yourself) are doing.
Furthermore, I find the persistent rubbish regarding equalised engine supply as attempts at dragging down constructive debate. You forego the facts, to paint a distorted picture to suite your ends(trolling in my book).

Why do you constantly frequent a thread to rubbish a team/manager? There is no constructive outcome, so whilst I learned a great deal from other posters, it is with regret now that I see no further point in taking part in discussion.

Arrideverci, sayonara and good night all, johnsonseviltwin signing off.

[HampusA]

the top speed difference is 339 for Schumacher compared to 333 for both Mclarens.
compare this with 347 for Senna,334.5 for Webber,332 for Trulli,329.5 for Kovalainen and 327.4 for Vettel...

obviously Vettel had enough Horsepower to win the race and drive at a very competitive speed laptimewise the quickest laps of Senna and Vettel differed only by 3tenths of a second but their Topspeeds were 20kmh apart.

Hamilton and Button had 6kmh less on the straights but 1.2 seconds better laptimes over Schumacher ...so gearingwise they were not that far from each other but Schumacher has a fair bit less drag so is reaching his slightly better top speed much earlier.
I think this is explaining what we saw well enough .

Button is confirming this in his post race analysis:

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 91151.html

They were running out of revs on the pit straight ,but the shorter gearing was a big advantage in the run to Ascari .

The thing was that when Hamilton had DRS open he matched Schumacher for a split second then Schumacher (without DRS) edged away just slightly slightly.

I can´t imagine how fast the Merc would have went with DRS compared to the Mclaren with DRS.

[marcush.]

let´s believe the DRS effect was half of what you see normally so around 5-10kmh .But would you see those speed differences at all when you gear the car too short? According to the trapspeeds Schumacher had 6kmh advantage on Hamilton deduct the 5kmh from it and you see Mercedes is 1 kmh quicker on top speed still with Mclarens DRS deployed and on maximum revs.
You also have to allow for an increase in gap with rising speed even when the actual time interval is remaining the same or the guy is closing in (timewise).

[AbbaleRacing77]

Are you guys basing your arguments on trap speeds without any knowledge of surrounding cars or drafting effects making this roundy round argument completely irrelevant?

[xpensive]

Boy what a day, JET is leaving us, S is banned, Humpster is turning nice and I have made my last attempt at raising a technical discussion on F1T (the Downfoce Fan thread), thank God we still have Mercedes to kick around!

[raymondu999]

Could be just me; but Michael really is coming on good, no? Here's to hoping he gets a comeback podium soon; I think that would be an emotional moment for many fans and generally a good moment for the sport

[bjpower]

Could be just me; but Michael really is coming on good, no? Here's to hoping he gets a comeback podium soon; I think that would be an emotional moment for many fans and generally a good moment for the sport

He seems in good form - i loved watching him battle with the mclarens.
but regardless of his form returning without an update to the merc it will still be the 7th fastest car on the grid. they have some way to go before catching the mclaren/Ferrari

but epic racing - cant wait to see him challenging ( next year i hope )

as for the debate on the engines. the engine development was frozen long before the merc brawn deal.I know there are little bits you can still work on but realistically I dont think you could pull out 30bhp without mclaren knowing about it.