Front Wing Design Possiblities

[flynfrog]

Can someone actually discuss the question/proposal instead of throwing around vague and pointless derogatory comments.

well you seem so sure what is there left to discuss.

Not sure about the whole airbrake thing wesley, sounds a little OTT. Look at it another way: It certainly won't create less DF cause the main plane has essentially been moved forward with increased AoA and a sort of fairing has been added to maintain the seal in front of the wheels. Since the second (rearmost) element can be designed with drag reduction in mind (rather than DF) and the front element should generate more DF (leverage and increased AoA).

To answer your question no it wont work. It will create much more drag and probably less downforce. Look up how a multielement wing works. You wan the flow to "pass" from one element to the next. Your wing is choking most of the second element off and you are making your first element trying to force air into your second element.

[MIKEY_!]

If I was so sure I wouldn't have asked would I but thanks anyway. But to focus more on the drag reduction method now: There are flaps mounted vertically beneath the wing to send it around the tires so how can they work if sending the air upwards won't when that is where its going anyway. (thinking of doing both though)

A system like this perhaps:

I recall something similar on mid 90's RWs but i cant be sure. In fact your pic has something a little like it.

BTW how is the first element forcing air into the second.

[Lycoming]

the rearmost element is still suffering from the same problem as in the original design; its just smaller, so perhaps less effect. The goal these days is not really to generate more downforce. thats a pretty simple proposition, just increase AoA. the goal is to generate the same df with less drag, ie efficiency. thus, red bull has a small element on their front wing that helps feed the diffuser. I don't really see how your wing accomplishes something similar. Adding more elements is not the answer; Boeing switched from triple slotted flaps to single slotted flaps because they had less drag. at the same time, advances in aerodynamics meant that they were able to generate adequate performance from a 1 slot flap.

[MIKEY_!]

To keep flow attached then? that alows more AoA.

Anyway I'm trying to run the wing as far forward as possible for better leverage. Renault did that in '09. Not that that was very effective. Still they ran hardly any AoA originally. If DF can be increased in front of the tire (when it will cause drag anyway) then you can have much less AoA along the rest of the wing and therefore better flow to rear of car.

[shelly]

More leverage just would give you more front balance authority from the front wing.
No effect on total downforce, and more difficult to compensate a powerful front wing with rear downforce.

[MIKEY_!]

Think i've said this before but...
Make the fw more efficient and then run less fw inboard. Then you don't need more rw and more air goes to the back of the car so greater efficiency there too. And less fw drag in theory (as long as the AoA is not to high).

[haziqmughal]

Hy!
I am a student of B.E (Mechanical) in University of Engineering & Technology Lahore and i have my final year project on the CFD analysis of F1 front wing. I need the front wing CAD model, i was trying to get its specifications to design it my self but i could not get it from anywhere, would you please send me a CAD model of F1 front wing and its design specifications,.
Waiting for your reply,
Haziq mughal
[-o<

[variante]

Speaking of zombie threads...

Since it's been resurrected,
just a word to "avenge" MYKEY_!'s solution, whose effectivness was unpolitely (by some) declared absurd.
So absurd that it was actually used on the Ferrari F1-2000 rear wing, on many 80/90s cars, and much more recently on the front wing of the Sauber.

[MIKEY_!]

Hi haziqmughal. No CAD models exist for this concept, I'm not proficient enough in CAD software anymore to produce one which would be useful to you, and honestly I can't recall exactly what I was proposing here anyway. If you can work out a solution then I'd be very grateful if you'd share it here.

Variante: Yes, many people seemed more interested in tearing down creative ideas and hurling personal insults than a constructive flow of ideas. Unfortunately that was my overwhelming experience on this site, hence why I haven't been back in several years. No one needs that kind of pointless negativity in their lives! Since I can't actually recall what I was proposing here, could you post some pictures of the real world applications you mentioned?

[wesley123]

I believe the idea was to place the flap behind the wing's chord, instead of a conventional wing.

The examples variante named are the late 90s wings;

It's not visible very clearly, but the flaps are essentially double stacked.

And the sauber ran a flap behind the front wing in front of the wheel.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hy!
I am a student of B.E (Mechanical) in University of Engineering & Technology Lahore and i have my final year project on the CFD analysis of F1 front wing. I need the front wing CAD model, i was trying to get its specifications to design it my self but i could not get it from anywhere, would you please send me a CAD model of F1 front wing and its design specifications,.
Waiting for your reply,
Haziq mughal
[-o<

Lazy student! It's not that hard to draw a front wing. Get a decent CAD program and just draw it according to the regulations. You can get plane wing profiles online turn them upside down and modify them a little. Add a few flaps, vanes and slots on it and, Viola! f1 front wing!

You see, try not to follow these ameteurs. The role of the f1 front wing is not only to make downforce by itself. That would be too easy. It is just as important that the front wing sets up the air flow for the rest of the car to make use of. It means first of all getting a clean a flow as possible past those big rotating gumballs called front tyres. And meanwhile that is being done you can even set up a vortex or two and direct them towards the sides of the floor. What for? To help to shield the under flow from disturbances and keep momentum under the floor of the car. More air speed under there, the lower the pressure and the more downforce. The diffuser will also help this even more.

So you see... Your task is bigger now. You have to add something to that crappy front wing model of yours. A nose. A set of wheels at least.. Maybe even just the first half of the car...

[MIKEY_!]

I see what you mean about the rear wing on that Ferrari wesley, although that's basically the same as the cross section flynfrog posted.

The Sauber wing is interesting, presumably the rearmost flap is more for flow management than outright downforce.

[wesley123]

I see what you mean about the rear wing on that Ferrari wesley, although that's basically the same as the cross section flynfrog posted.

No, the wing that I showed has two flaps in front of the normal flaps, the wing flynfrog shows does not have that.