Mercedes GP 2011

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jav
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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I "hope" for- more than that... but I "expect" another 4th place year.

Even at that, I would be happy if the team could show up with a car that looked properly finished (detail-wise), that was a good base for evolution ( no inherent flaws like cooling,wrong COG,tire eater,small tuning sweet spot etc.). Then, with an infrastructure that effectively "developes" race to race, I'll start to feel my hope isn't a waste.

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MIKEY_!
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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I agree they will be 4th again next year. However I do hope they are much closer to the others. I also do not expect RBR to be so dominant next year.

munudeges
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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richard_leeds wrote:Not wanting to get off topic for the Merc thread, but to correct you, Geoff Wills is leaving. Discuss on the HRT thread
Well, it continues. At least Zander has the experience needed but it's a massive blow for HRT because Willis was pretty much the only steadying hand at the team.

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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Is it just me, or is Zetsche a bit more xcited about DTM than Formula One at the moment?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94553
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Dragonfly
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Be thankful that after Monza he's got excited about F1 at last :)
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Breaking my self imposed exile ( :o )to bring this little nugget of news that should have X and Seg(mun) turning in their sleep.
I will post the important sections, embolding the bits that people who should know better really ought to heed.
He also batted away suggestions that Mercedes' engine department would be inclined to work more closely with its factory team.

"The assumption that we're not working as closely with Mercedes is incorrect," Neale added. "We've had a long relationship with Mercedes-Benz High-Performance Engines at Brixworth, we know the guys up there very well and we're a good team together. I think certainly we expect, and we are, working very closely with them ahead of 2014. Our job, as theirs is, is to make sure Mercedes-Benz has the best engine on the grid and is best prepared and most ready [for 2014]. I don't feel in any way that we are being disadvantaged or held at arm's length.

"I think sometimes when people look at the McLaren Group as a whole and look at the way the road car platform is developing, then I think in that domain of course there are lots of what-ifs and maybes and how its powertrain is going to develop there going forward. But we shouldn't confuse that with what's going on with the engine programme [at the F1 team]. Our focus is very much around our engine partners Mercedes-Benz, who do a first-class job for us and we expect to be an intimate and high-performance partner with them."

Asked if McLaren had been given guarantees that it will receive equal treatment alongside the Mercedes GP team, Neale said: "That's not a concern or an issue for us at all. I think there is one thing that ourselves Mercedes GP and Mercedes-Benz High-Performance Engines want, which is for Mercedes to have the best engine in 2014. The fact that they can draw on technical contributions and know-how from partners such as ourselves and Mercedes should only make them stronger."
So, Thank you Mr Neale for rubbishing suggestions that Mercedes horde the best for themselves and dish out second rate V8's to anyone other than Mercedes GP.
Also, Mr Horner did say Mercedes GP were the biggest team on the F1 grid...with 450 GP staff around 330 engine staff a total of 780.
Now that Red Bull are a "factory" Renault team(his words), does this now mean Red Bull have usurped Mercedes GP as the "biggest" F1 team? Or will his barometers for measurement have changed?

I also see nothing wrong with Zetsche's comments. He was eulogising over Schumachers displays in a weakened car, and saying "we arent there yet" with performance, Whats wrong with that? Its a darn honest assessment and at least hes stumping up the cash for them to at least try and get better! :lol:
How anyone can extrapulate a negative angle to it suggests to me they are overtrying of making a negative statement on this thread(repeatedly it has to be said).

And Zander....Look at his work history, littered with fallouts wherever he goes. If he lasts more than 18 at HRT, I'll eat my hat.

I'll resurface when the voting system Tomba has in place arrives. Until then, Arrivederci! :D

Edit:Richard here are your sources

http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/3213/71 ... with-Merc?
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2683 ... es-power/?
http://en.espnf1.com/lotus/motorsport/s ... MP=OTC-RSS
Last edited by JohnsonsEvilTwin on 21 Sep 2011, 16:01, edited 1 time in total.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Richard
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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I've deleted my post. It was trying to explore the inherent tensions of an engine supplier working with a poor performing in house team and a much more successful external team. We can see the same with Renault & RB.

However rational discussion is no longer possible this thread.
Last edited by Richard on 21 Sep 2011, 18:10, edited 5 times in total.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Why sign up till 2015 if there are intrinsic issues with Mercedes-Benz? Plain answer is you wouldnt.

Apparently, Lewis was stuck behind Schumacher due to inferior and unequal engines. It also was NOT noted that Button dispatched Schumacher in the space of 3 corners....in the same bloody car! :lol:

Or is it a case of Mercedes giving drivers the better engines? Button Schumacher and Di Resta get the "good uns", and evil Mercedes sabotage Rosberg Hamilton and Sutil? Wow see what I just did there? :twisted:

Now C'mon, this is F1 technical! Not Crash.net where any old accusation can be levelled with zero evidence other than what your eyes tell you!
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Holy crap JET, where have you been hiding out re-charging your batteries like that, the Stuttgart training camp?

Interesting that you take McLaren's statements at such face value, I'm a tad more cynic than that of course. Political correctness and toeing the party-line was never xactly my forte, but even I can sense a certain diplomacy from Mr Neale.

Jörg Zander is my kinda guy, just like Gascoyne he don't take no s*it from no wannabee-engineer or TD-impersonator.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Not quite sure how to take that Pierce.... :oops:

And X, its like a rabbit disappearing down a hole with you isn't it? Now it "toe company line"?

Well why would McLaren hamper themselves for 4 years just to "toe the line"?
Again the simple answer is they wouldnt!

Mclaren arent stupid X. What makes you think they wouldnt ditch Mercedes and dust off the old beemer V8's for tuppence?
Because I tell you something X, if there was a sniff that Mercedes was stitching Mclaren up with engines, you can bet they would signing up with someone else from 2014 if not sooner!

Going to Hell, Back soon..... :D
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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[...]

Look JET, it's not that McLaren gets shafted by MHPE on the engines, au contraire, I'm sure they still get the best engines money can buy in Formula One...err...second best anyway...never mind, what they get is good enough to beat MGP by a mile or so.

I believe there will be no McLarens with Mercedes engines from 2014 and on, why your last statement is rather irrelevant.
Last edited by Steven on 23 Sep 2011, 13:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed personal comments
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Mr.S
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Not quite sure how to take that Pierce.... :oops:

And X, its like a rabbit disappearing down a hole with you isn't it? Now it "toe company line"?

Well why would McLaren hamper themselves for 4 years just to "toe the line"?
Again the simple answer is they wouldnt!

Mclaren arent stupid X. What makes you think they wouldnt ditch Mercedes and dust off the old beemer V8's for tuppence?
Because I tell you something X, if there was a sniff that Mercedes was stitching Mclaren up with engines, you can bet they would signing up with someone else from 2014 if not sooner!

Going to Hell, Back soon..... :D
I think Mercedes fans are giving too much importance to trolls who just want to belittle Mercedes. The same people will bash Merc for not having a TD & will say Bob bell is not enough to challenge Newey when Merc apply a TD. When reputed guys like Costa may join,they say there may be a coflict of opinions.


Is it not ironical that Mclaren recruit a guy like Sam Michael. Sam Michael who is a complete flop for Williams this season & they can only beat Lotus,Virgin & Hispania. The role is a "Sporting Director" whose work no one knows. The guy is a complete technical guy & track-side operations & have never been his forte. Isn't recruiting a failure like Sam Michael the sign that Neale/Paddy whoever is TD is gonna get the boot.

TO be honest Mclaren have won only 1 title in the last 12 years,they have been quite a big failure in comarison to the expectations. So know a WILLIAMS FLOP is gonna save Mclaren.

I'm done with giving undue importance to hypocritical & stupid opinions.

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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Mr.S wrote: ...
So (k)now a WILLIAMS FLOP is gonna save Mclaren.

I'm done with giving undue importance to hypocritical & stupid opinions.
I've heard that when McLaren recruited Sam Michael, it was with strong competition from MGP for his services?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Apparently, Lewis was stuck behind Schumacher due to inferior and unequal engines. It also was NOT noted that Button dispatched Schumacher in the space of 3 corners....in the same bloody car!
Ahhhhh, alas Button got through because Schumacher and Hamilton had done a spot of off-line off-roading but it was still interesting the kind of pass that Button still had to make, no?
Button Schumacher and Di Resta get the "good uns", and evil Mercedes sabotage Rosberg Hamilton and Sutil? Wow see what I just did there?
I'm not entirely sure what Rosberg and Sutil have got to do with engines given that they went out of the last race for other reasons, but then completely unrelated and illogical off-shoots are par for the course.
Now C'mon, this is F1 technical! Not Crash.net......
Hmmmmmmm.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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I always find it funny when people, those who should know better as well as the usual suspects, swallow what someone says in an interview wholesale and eagerly post it up verbatim because they think it backs them up.

What on Earth does anyone expect Neale and McLaren to say? They are stuck with Mercedes until 2014, they can't go elsewhere until then and they will simply have to suck it up and accept what Mercedes gives them. It should be obvious as to why. They can't sign with anyone else until then and there is little chance they will have Mercedes V6s, although I'm sure they will be given all they help they need to stay ahead of Mercedes GP in the very position they want to be in. They know exactly what the score is and this interview actually confirms it, but you would need to read between the lines.

The fact that someone even asked him that question and the defensive nature of the interview about McLaren's relationship with Mercedes should tell you everything you need to know, but even after all this time people still don't get the political nature of that environment............

Sam Michael? He's gone from being a Technical Director, and to be fair to the poor guy effectively Team Principal rolled into one, to a 'Sporting Director' whose roll seems to be very ill-defined. McLaren have more than enough people to head up track operations and I can only see there being too many cooks there. What McLaren do need are people who can build them the right car and Michael is not going to be doing that. I hope they're not just recruiting for the sake of it.