Silly Season 2011/2012

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Well Brundle said on Twitter a few days back "I might be able to commentate from a Williams cockpit" :P
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

wesley123 wrote:
timbo wrote:
wesley123 wrote:Due to Button beating Hamilton and being real competition Hamilton shows his anger in the team. The team want to keep Hamilton so they decide to not renew Button's contract and go for a new, worse driver.
I think if that's the case Ham would lose quite a bit of team loyalty and if he doesn't manage to sort his act on track he would face his team not willing to renew his contract in future.
Imo it is quite clear Hamilton and McLaren dont go quite along the past year. The Way Whitmarsh talks about him, Hamilton stance, rumours around and the way they react upon as well as Hamilton completely not being in form for the past year is enough evidence for me. After the Canada incident I can imagine Button and Hamilton being less close to each other. Point is, to keep Hamilton, and keep him happy they have to listen to him, and one fo these things might be sacking Button and bring in a new Kovalainen. Because be fair, since button drives at McLaren Hamilton seems to be making mistake after mistake. In 2007 and 2008 he was pretty much flawless and I think we all would like to see that Hamilton again, including McLaren and whole formula 1.

If McLaren still doesnt suit Hamilton and the situation is the same next year I have no doubts at all of Hamilton leaving McLaren and most likely joining Red Bull as an replacement for Webber. The way Red Bull, Horner, McLaren and Hamilton himself have been talking about these rumours more prove he will go to Red Bull then that he stays.
Hamilton...Flawless?!?!? Those words don't go together, remember China 2007? Canada 2008? You can expect mistakes when you're pushing at the limit. Button is fast but does it in a way that doesn't push the car. Hamilton can do the same, but Hamilton can push harder while being smooth. As such he's closer to the limit, which is why he makes more mistakes. I doubt if Hamilton was in second in Singapore, would he have let Vettel just dominate him as he did Button.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

raymondu999 wrote:Yes but my point with my last post is; sure Merc would be Hamilton's best option. But would Hamilton be merc's best option? It takes two to tango
I agree there.

If Hamilton has a falling out with Mclaren, he really has no viable options other than Mercedes. I wouldn't want Hamilton on the team. I'd much rather they retain Schumacher for another few years if he is up for the challenge. I wouldn't mind seeing how Hamilton stacks up to Rosberg though. I think Rosberg would get the better of him more often than not.

Mercedes would be better off with some new tallent. They seemed interested in Senna before the Honda pullout. Maybe that would still be an option after Schumacher's contract is up, assuming he retires.

Is Massa contracted for 2012 at Ferrari? That seat is the one of interest. Next year there may not be much of a change, but come 2013, I see a seat at Ferrari and a seat at Red Bull open up and perhaps one at Mercedes.
Honda!

RB7ate9
RB7ate9
2
Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

dren wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Yes but my point with my last post is; sure Merc would be Hamilton's best option. But would Hamilton be merc's best option? It takes two to tango
I agree there.

If Hamilton has a falling out with Mclaren, he really has no viable options other than Mercedes. I wouldn't want Hamilton on the team. I'd much rather they retain Schumacher for another few years if he is up for the challenge. I wouldn't mind seeing how Hamilton stacks up to Rosberg though. I think Rosberg would get the better of him more often than not.

Mercedes would be better off with some new tallent. They seemed interested in Senna before the Honda pullout. Maybe that would still be an option after Schumacher's contract is up, assuming he retires.

Is Massa contracted for 2012 at Ferrari? That seat is the one of interest. Next year there may not be much of a change, but come 2013, I see a seat at Ferrari and a seat at Red Bull open up and perhaps one at Mercedes.
I foresee a massive change in driver line-up for 2013 as well. 2012 has been pretty much locked up barring major events (for the driver's sake, I hope all manage well enough to make it through 2012 in their respective seats). However, I think many drivers will be retiring and/or giving way to new blood.

Schumi and Barichello ought to call it quits after 2012 since they have the spirit, but not the pace that other drivers could get out of cars in a long-term contract, emphasis long term contract. Advisory positions, as MS did before at Ferrari, would still be lucrative and competitive positions.

Massa has not been at the top of his form all season. It may be due to his injuries, the formula this year, or simply Alonso is trouncing him into submission. No matter the cause, even if he is the "#2" driver to Alonso, he hasn't been putting in the points that other "#2" drivers like Webber (sigh) or Hamilton/Button (depending on the GP result) are adding to the constructors. He just hasn't been pushing the f150 as much as he could or has before. It is very possible that Ferrari will use 2012 as the grounds for extension or termination.

Webber...(sigh) oh Webber. I believe that he will most likely retire after 2012 because the sideline politicos (i.e. Helmut Marko) have already written him off. I don't think it's a matter of the team, because Mark has consistently given to the team and the amount of camaraderie in that team is really amazing, even between Mark and Sebastian (at least I hope :p). But the higher powers of Red Bull are looking to push their Junior Drivers through STR and RBR since they have to, or else they will have a backlog of vetted drivers from GP2 and the ranks that they will have to do something with. With the regulation changes, 2012 will be for Mark to win. If I were Horner and team (which I am sure I am not), I would push for Mark to win the WDC. Vettel has more seasons in him. Push Mark to retire with his long-sought WDC and allow a new driver take his seat beside Vocket Vettel.

Why do I say that 2012 will see the departure of these drivers? Because of 2014.

With 2014, a whole slew of changes will upend Formula 1 and the cars that entertain us. Those cars, new engines, new regulations, new KERS(!?) will mean that each team needs drivers at the top of their adaptive game. Every team's top drivers will have to be dedicated to communicating with engineers about the feel and balance and performance of the new formula. Vettel, for example, communicates a lot with his engineers, and so is an ideal lock for 2014's technical race. However, if one had to choose between venerated hands built on certain breeds of f1 car, or fresh faces with little to no previous bias, then you want those new eyes and ears to give you a very honest interpretation of performance as well as a faster learning curve. But, you don't want 100% new drivers with no cockpit time. Even one season in a soon-to-be-extinct spec. is vital to garner experience in GP weekends and team integration. So, in preparation for 2014, I expect to see all of the constructors shuffling in new blood in 2013, and the passing of some of my favorite drivers...into legend.

Long post.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

I struggle to see you're reasoning, 7ate9. If you were Chris Horner, it would only make sense to push Vettel for the WDC. Say Mark is retiring in 2013 as you say. So you had Vettel and someone else in RBR 2013. Now, if I were Chris Horner, I'd much rather push Seb for the 2012 title. That way I have a triple champ + a young hotshot, rather than a double champ. Whether or not Mark wins the 2012 WDC is of no benefit to RBR in 2013.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Heres my rundown for 2012:

Everyone keeps there seat apart from the following:

Alguesari/Buemi @Torro Rosso one of those replaced by Ricciardo.
Petrov @ Renault replaced by Grosjean subbing for Kubica until hes fit.
Barrichello @ Williams replaced by Raikkonen.
Ricciardo @ HRT replaced by Karthikayan/Paydriver.
More could have been done.
David Purley

User avatar
MIKEY_!
7
Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

+1 for the torro rosso changes
unsure about petrov (hope he stays)
Barrichello out, Ice man in - GOOD :D
Think Karthikayan will be out (replaced by pay dirver or senna if Kubica returns)

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Karthikeyan himself is a pay driver, no? I'd love to see Kimi back in the sport. Speaking of Kimi... I think Button's not contracted to McLaren for 2012 yet, is he? :P
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Kimi is persona non grata at Mclaren after signing for Ferrari. Of course he will still have friends there but you will never see him drive a Mclaren F1 car in anger again.

Karthikayan is a pay driver, basically Im saying anyone with a superlicence and a truck load of cash can have a brilliant track day weekend with HRT! :lol:
More could have been done.
David Purley

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

I wouldn't say that so quickly if I were you though. McLaren were talking to Kimi at the end of 2009, don't forget. Why not Kimi for FIndia? It would be a better, more stable job for Kimi than would a Williams, and would probably allow him to shine better.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

raymondu999 wrote:I wouldn't say that so quickly if I were you though. McLaren were talking to Kimi at the end of 2009, don't forget.
I will nail it to the mast ray, You will never see Kimi in a macca in F1 again. Button and hamilton will be there for the next 2 years, and then you have Paffett waiting in the wings for when these either of those decide to move on.

My bet is Jensons is at Mclaren for the next 3-5 years and Lewis, well he could be there for the next 10 years or he could seek another team. Just depends what happens in the next 12 months IMO.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Paffett? He hasn't raced open cockpit cars since 2002, he switched to DTM in 2003. He'll also be rather old (currently 30) to start an F1 career.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Yes I agree with Richard on Paffett. I don't think he's really the next guy in there. He's a spare driver for lack of a better word, rather than the next up the rung.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

raymondu999 wrote:Yes I agree with Richard on Paffett. I don't think he's really the next guy in there. He's a spare driver for lack of a better word, rather than the next up the rung.
I expect actually that the next driver on McLaren's list if they could choose is DiResta.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Silly Season 2011/2012

Post

Di Resta is a Mercedes shoe in. They are footing the bill for him at Force India, and you can bet he will be supersub if either Rosberg or Schumacher call time at Merc.

Have to say Rosberg's postion has weakend somewhat in the last 6 months, Schumacher has outpointed him a fair few times during the race. Di Resta and Hamilton at Merc in 2014?

Possibly...
More could have been done.
David Purley