electrical diagrams. and batterys in f1 cars?

[lob4star]

Hi I was wondering if any one knew of any sites or have any electrical diagrams for any cars. In a perfect world I would ask if any one has any for a f1 or similar type of car but I don’t know if any one would have any thing like that.


And with all of the electronics on f1 cars what powers them all? Does the car have a battery built in?

[Ciro Pabón]

I bought a full manual for a Pontiac GTO here. They have all kind of manuals. I don't think you will find here an F1 wiring system.

I thought F1 have batteries, because I saw specificationsfor R106 that said "3 AH lead-acid battery".

BTW, isn't a 3AH (amperes-hour, I think) battery a really small one?

Then I asked why weren't they lithium or something and there were many theories but no one said they had no batteries.

Finally I found at this forum that they could have no batteries, as the text says "The starter has a remote battery supply...".

Figure it out.... I have looked every picture I have seen of an F1 engine, but no battery around.

I shall say you need one to restart the car, but I don't even know if you can restart an F1. I believe Americans are less demanding, as they allow you to ask for help from the public and your family to push the damn thing and even put it back on the wheels if it has rolled over....

[Monstrobolaxa]

F1 cars do have batteries...if you notice a car stopping with it's engine off still has radio comunication and the steering wheel displays are normally on.

[Tom]

Yes the batteries are under the drivers seats, or they used to be. They must have batteries to power the spark plugs, if they just used an auxillery drive belt the engine would be wasting too much energy. They seem reliable because I have only heard of 1 case in F1 of one failing.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Actually F1 cars do have alternators...the battery by itself would only last under 1minute when the engine is running at max rpm....that is also why F1 cars have such hi rpms when they at idle...it's to maintain the battery charge and hidraulic pressure. Going below idle would make the hidraulic pressure and battery reach critical values.

[zac510]

Monstro is right, I was able to ask these questions to an RBR engineer last year.

Battery is only good for starting the engine, then it is all up to the alternator.

[Ciro Pabón]

Monstro is right, I was able to ask these questions to an RBR engineer last year. Battery is only good for starting the engine, then it is all up to the alternator.

Monstrobolaxa is right. You are wrong, zac. Battery on board have not enough power to start the engine, if I read well the link I gave for this forum. They don't even start the engine until oil pressure and everything is OK. No wonder RBR is not doing fine...

I think Tom is wrong too. How could a battery power the spark plug for an entire race? mmmmm... now I see why Alonso couldn't overtake Schuey: The energizer bunny was under Schumacher as*!

[Tom]

I didn't say the alternator wasn't there, I just said that I didn't think the engine couldn run on the alternator alone surely. Perhaps it can, I don't know.

zac510 said

Battery is only good for starting the engine, then it is all up to the alternator.

Not quite sure what you mean here. I thought the engine was started from a guy at the back with a drill which turns the engine just fast enough to keep it going. I don't see how the battery is needed here because the alternator would still be running.

[zac510]

Ciro, Tom, yes sorry I was a bit vague in my post.

I am agreeing with Monstro because I know that if the engine was started up without the alternator it would not run for any reasonable amount of time. The alternator is required to maintain electrical power for the engine to run.

Yes, the starter motor is powered externally and operated by a mechanic who plugs it into the gearbox.

[manchild]

Alternator can't start producing electricity without primary power input. That is what dynamo could do and that is why you can't push-start a car with alternator without accumulator on board. Even if it is too empty to light up a bulb it is usually enough to enable functioning of alternator. So, battery found on f1 car enables that primary power input to alternator while starter motor has its own battery.

Also, any engine can run without accumulator once it is started because when engine runs accumulator is nothing but another consumer of power just like bulb or fan motor.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Basicly when starting the engine the battery has enough charge for the initial revolutions of the engine...untill it reaches idle! Before reaching idle the engine is consuming more charge then the alternator is producing....when reaching idle the alternator produces slightly more charge then what is being consumed by the engine + all other electrical equipment on the car.

So technically the car does need the battery for the start...because I suspect the starter doesn't give the 3000-4000 rpm of the idle...so the alternator at the starter speed probably won't create enough charge.

[manchild]

Amount of electricity that alternator produces at rpm rotated by starter is enough to supply ignition system with electricity and that is all that counts. As I already wrote in previous post alternator can't start generating electricity no matter how fast you rotate it if you do that without primary power input from battery to alternator.

Who doesn’t believe me can try push-starting a car with cables detached from battery.

[Ciro Pabón]

I just wanted to say that the McLaren and BAR Honda sites explain:

- Of course the car has a battery (look at car specifications if you want to check), fool of me to even doubt it.

I was thinking that in a normal car the distributor (and anything else) is connected to the battery, which gives you a constant voltage, while the alternator voltage varies. Am I wrong?

I don't think the wiring is such as to have the power from the alternator feeding the system directly.

- The battery is a really small one. The RA106 specificationsindicate 3AH.

Could it be a typo? This is a photo of a 12V, 3AH lead acid battery at batteries.com, measuring 6 x 6 x 13 cm.



My Nissan has a 60Ah battery, measuring 23 x 23 x 17 cm.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Who doesn’t believe me can try push-starting a car with cables detached from battery.

Well this is a completly diferent story!....you actually can do it...but you'd need to redesign the electrical system.

The alternator can create electricity without a primary power input...just look at the dynos used on bicycles to create electricity for the lights...in that case you don't need a primary power source! It's simply connecting the cables that leave the dyno to the lights!

In a cars case you can connect the cables leaving the alternator to a the engine management unit (and voltage/intensity control modules) and you could run without a battery.

Besides the example I gave...try playing with kids electric toys that have electric engines....and lights! if you push the car without any batteries most of the times the lights light up...untilll you stop pushing. (I noticed it when I was 8 years old...and asked my dad for the explanation...well at the time I didn't understand! A physics teacher at university doesn't have simple explanations for 8 year olds! )

[manchild]

I was thinking that in a normal car the distributor (and anything else) is connected to the battery

It isn't important where ditributor is exactly connected because it makes no difference if you connect it directly on alternator or on contacts of battery (plus is plus and minus is minus).

which gives you a constant voltage, while the alternator voltage varies. Am I wrong?

Battery voltage has constant tendency to drop as well as its capacity. Even idle rpms are enough for alternator to feed the system and to charge battery if it is low. Those several tenths of seconds or few seconds while engine is being rotated by starter aren't important because if you start the engine as expecetd (with all consumers swithched off) than it makes no problem for battery or alternator.

I don't think the wiring is such as to have the power from the alternator feeding the system directly....

It must be wired directly and I see no reason for it to be essentialy any different to passenger cars system.

12v 3AH is enough for battery that doesn't have to power starter engine. Small cars used to have between 20 and 30 AH and those batteries were supposed to power the starter.