Mercedes GP 2011

[shelly]

Agree with richard. Maybe they have had just some brief chats. Anyway I think that they expect Costa and Willis to help in he develpment of the car which has already been basically designed under Bell.
Full impact of the techincal tema will be on the 2013 w04 which is doomed to be a title contender

[Byronrhys]

Gardening leave is there for a reason, it is to ensure a person can't work for a competitor. If Wills or Costa were known to have any conversations with Merc, then there will be a swift injunction from HRT & Ferrari and a claim for damages. Don't forget HRT and Ferrari will still be paying their salaries.

It happened last year, or possibly the year before, I can't recall who.

Willis was only a HRT consultant, I don't think he served any Gardening leave, hence why is is starting so early.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Right you are about gardening leave, and also the hard to prove bit.


but this happened a few weeks after his sacking:

Once it was over with Ferrari in early July, I spoke with Brawn and Bob Bell. Just a few words with Ross were enough to find ourselves on the same wavelength as ever

Its no secret that he'd been talking to Brawn, but why Bell? What does Costa need to speak to Bell about when its Brawn who signs the cheques(under Mercedes proviso)?
I'm sure Bell was involved in the recruitment, but Im also sure that the chatter didnt stop at "we have this postion come available, interested?".

He would have had to have discussed his role within the team and exactly what he would be doing. Bell would naturally have an idea of how to utilise Costa's talents from his days with Brawn. And Costa in turn would know what he would have to offer Mercedes from his chats with Brawn.
The information Costa gives at this point could be deemed breach of "gardening leave".

There is also a whole bunch of laws to counter gardening leave. Although in this case it is being respected by Mercedes.

So, while there may not be "details" passing from one to the other, you can bet that Costa will have a preference over direction of where the W03 is heading, especially when you consider this chat took place around 2 and a half months ago.....

[dren]

That and Bell would be his immediate supervisor. So it makes sense for Bell to be there.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Just read this Re the conversation we had regards where Mercedes are in developing the W03. There wont be an exact parallel as to what Ferrari are doing, given Ferrari's resources but this is what Tombazis had to say where they currently are today.

We are currently at the stage of finalising components for next year, larger parts that require the longest production time.
That means the Chassis, the gearbox and suspension.
Some of these components are now at the production stage, while are are in the final part of the design process.
We are right in the middle of development of the aerodynamic elements.

[shelly]

Ok that confirms what I wrote before

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ok that confirms what I wrote before

maybe, maybe not.

I would probably guess you are correct though shelly.

[shelly]

Production lead time for a tub is very long.
You have to make the models for the moulds, laminate, cure and control the moulds.
You have to laminate two halves and cure them; after that you have to glue the two halves together.
Then you have to fit and glue the dashboards, machine the chassis, glue inserts, add all the add-ons, gle the side crash structures if they are glued..

The external shape of the tub must be frozen before making he models for the mould -that's around endof august-mid september usually

[Mr.S]

Look Ferrari have been the 1st mover completely abandoning this year's car.They have even been trying bits & pieces for year year.Newey stated he is only working on the gearbox & chasis or basic parts of it.

The car is very much in its conceptual stage. Whatever stuff has been made will be bits & pieces. Crash tests are a complete non-issue,never was.

Last year HRT & those guys could barely run their car on the 1st race & could not even attend pre-season testing. What are you guys at??? Mercedes can start from November is they want. I dont think that will ever be a problem. Just that you need more developmental time to come up with a winner.



Besides major modifications will take place,the car will be made in such a basic manner such that it can be changed extensively. Anyone remembers the W01?? They changed suspension of gearbox twice to change the whole wheelbase of the car.. I remember reading an inteview in Mercedes GP that they had to shorten the wheelbase for Monaco in 1 week & introduced a new gearbox or suspension for it.

[Mr.S]

Can someone actually tell me how good Willis is??? I mean he is decent & experienced but I dont know if he is good enough to handle the aerodynamics of Mercedes GP to take it to the No.1 slot.

Surely he is not that good????Costa I rate him highly,even though I think he is no match for Newey or fit to be TD but he is a good addition none-the-less.

With Bob Bell around & Costa supporting him do Mercedes actually need Willis???Can he really be a difference maker??

[Morteza]

Willis will do Mercedes good. He was there at Brackley before in BAR/Honda days. He designed BAR 006 which was a pretty good car in 2004 season. He was also responsible for Honda RA106 which gave Button his first win. BAR 006 is statistically the best car designed by Willis with 11 podium finishes.

[ESPImperium]

ESP; is the winter young guns test not at Yas Marina this year? It was last year.

The young guys test this year is still to happen at Abu yes, but next year there will be 2 young guys tests as Pre Season will be 12 days long with the 3 day test at Valencia being moved to Mugello and put in the middle of the 3 week break wetween Bahrain (If it goes ahead) and Spain. This test the teams have to submit at least 2 days to young drivers and another to be shared by the race drivers.

From what i belive, MGP W03-01 has been cast and taken out its mould and bonded to the other half of the tub as Mercedes use the top/bottom lay up technique. It was taken out the mould in mid/late September and will be at least 6 weeks to get it thrugh the finishing booth and get it ready for crash testing in late November at the earliest.

No way have they got full scale models at this point. The car is still very much on the drawing board with 1/2 scale mock ups doing Wind tunnel tests.

Crash testing will be done on crash simulators. Stuttgart have got some of the most advanced simulators when it comes to this sort of thing and Brackley will be making the most of this. Only once the numbers stack up do they submit a car to be crash tested. Probably around January time.

Remember this year? Mercedes were still struggling in February with side impact tests for the W02.

I remember reading that Mercedes were brimging the first tub of the production line in September, 5 weeks earlier than last, just so they can use it for learning. Most teams will use Crash Test simulators to a point, but now the way a tub is made is pretty much standardised and so most usually pass first time arround. The last not to pass first time arround was the Red Bull RB4 that passed 2nd time of asking. Simulators cant test for inconsistancies in materials used in construction.

Most of teams will be bringimg their tubs of the production line in this 6 week window, Hispania said they will have their first 2012 tub off the production line and about half way thru final finishing by the time the flag is waved in Abu, meaning they are roughly 10 weeks futher forward than this year and about 6 weeks futher forward than 2009 meaning they can follow a full test progrtame for a change.

EDIT: Every team is diffrent, Ferrari usually take about 60% of the time that the rest do as they have more numbers than the rest, McLaren are probably the second latest, and Red Bull the first of the top 3 teams to get their tubs of the production line.

Most of the first tubs to have their power train mounted should be fired up for the first time for mid to late January about a week to ten days before the first test in Jerez or shakedown at Fiarano.

[siskue2005]

Yes I think there have been talks between Bell and Costa and Willis (maybe they have disguised them as the technical part of the job interview, when they give you a pen and ask you to draw something...); but as of today, the tub deign is frozen and the first tub is already in the shop in all its blackess, maybe just waiting for the zylon panels to be glued on it

What??

What what?

how can the tub design be frozen today??
There is no more homoloagation rule

[marcush.]

they need a lot of parts till january ,they surely have only one mold to produce the tub ...so you just cannot wait forever start producing the monocoques as you need A LOT of time for these.
Wasn´t it roughly 3-4weeks turnaround for a monocoque? Even if you take 3 weeks ..you need to pass crash tests /homologate before testing this year...so considering the car has to be build up you will need 9 weeks to produce 2 tubs and the crash monocoque till january ..Not much in terms of cushion ....If someone decided to change all this (monocoque )you would have to produce a new 60% model for windtunneltesting first to adapt to your new concept ,build new molds for this and of course for the actual monocoque ...it´s such a big job ,I´m surte nobody would ever sign up for that.
It´s done .Full stop.either it´s good enough or it is not.

The crash testing has to be completeted in full before the car is driven in anger on official testing next year.

[shelly]

@siskue: I think you have understood form subsequent post that "frozen design" does not refer to any rule about homologation, but it's simply a consequence of the fact that you have already started (almost finished) the actual building of the tub.