Separating car speed from driver speed

[Richard]

A simulator using some sort of evolutionary parametric algorithm would adapt its driving style to the car. We use them to optimise our engineering designs, they are quite clever in the way they exclude suboptimal solutions. Using an evolutionary approach also makes it much easier to use multi factor optimisation. It'd quickly find if early or late apexing was optimum for the car, etc etc.


Collusion will never happen because it would involve teams losing the smoke and mirrors that they rely on to confuse the opposition. We'd no longer have to guess if Sauber and Merc are setting fastest times on fumes, while RB sand bag throughout FP. It'd also dispel any complaints about a car being slow because of a under powered engine. It'd make F1 would would be rather dull wouldn't it?

Hypothetically I think it a great idea, as long as we only released the results after the season was over.... and assuming that all team simulators were equal.

[ahmedvortex]

no need for a real driver ; a human-like skilled robot created in common by teams ,will ensure the task with max equal condition , teams will receive the track inputs and provide a comparative base for driver efficiency .

i think that with equal inputs all the simulators match each others .

[intelligentF1]

If we put the drivers in the simulators we get how close each driver is to the fastest driver, which is not an absolute test. The fastest driver may be operating at only 98% of the optimum (not that I think that is true).

However, it can't be that hard to simulate all possible driver inputs and get an optimum laptime that can't be beaten for a particular setup/track/conditions. That becomes the benchmark. I find it difficult to believe that the teams haven't done this, as this provides a measure of driveability. I'm sure there could be faster setups which human reactions are just not fast enough to deal with - especially in controlling oversteer.

Next question is does it matter? If there are fast setups that humans can't control, the teams won't go down that route as it is still mandatory in F1 to use human drivers.

[Richard]

This is probably the nearest we'll ever get:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_t ... eaderboard

Top Gear F1 leaderboard

1:44.0 – Sebastian Vettel
1:44.3 – Rubens Barrichello
1:44.4 – The Stig (II – Ben Collins)
1:44.6 – Nigel Mansell
1:44.7 – Lewis Hamilton (wet & oily)
1:44.7 – Jenson Button (hot)
1:44.9 – Jenson Button (falling snow)
1:46.0 – The Stig (I – Perry McCarthy)
1:46.3 – Damon Hill
1:47.1 – Mark Webber (very wet)
DNF – Michael Schumacher

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Wet and oily + snow both must add another second or so surely!

[beelsebob]

Wet and oily + snow both must add another second or so surely!

I would imagine more than that, but until LH or JB go back on top gear, we'll never know.

[ringo]

Why is it that back in the day drivers could test cars before they think about signing?


You always hear of drivers testing other cars then either signing the next season or trying another team.

Or am i wrong?

We don't really see that with current drivers. Only the young ones.

They need a track day with 10 like cars or so. It could be GP2 cars it doesn't matter. All drivers should be on track at the same time so conditions are the same.

They should run it like a Q3 with each having lots of room. That's the only way to settle things.

The car setup should be given to them too. This way none can have a car that is setup poorer than the other.

[raymondu999]

With that though, how about the ones who prefer a different balance than the "given" setup? Maybe instead you could give the baseline, and let them fine-tune the balance.

[raymondu999]

They need a track day with 10 like cars or so. It could be GP2 cars it doesn't matter. All drivers should be on track at the same time so conditions are the same.

I'd also argue you need the cars to be equally handling-neutral too, without any real handling deficiencies.

If you introduced handling deficiencies in the system, then all you'd really find is who was really best at handling these deficiencies. That's also a good skill to have, but not quite on the same question I was asking about

[joncho]

the two things changes in a race to race basis

mclaren is slower than ferrari now who would say?
and also the drivers have personal or health problems (not only health problems, also psicological and biological clock change )

so it is a bit difficult to judge

the experienced eye and telemetry help a lot

all we can say is Massa is not at the speed of ferrari

[raymondu999]

Anyone getting outqualified by their teammate is most probably (track conditions/weather permitting) not at the limit of their machinery. Given that they were outqualified in the same machinery with the same limits, it's probably not the "peak" limit if you know what I mean.

Of course then you get to a situation where one car has a better setup than the next, and maybe in fact the outqualified driver got more out of his compromised setup than the outqualifying driver got out of his good setup!

[Cam]

Driver speed could (to a degree) be determined by a series of out of car tests, similar to an IQ test, but for reflexes, fitness, stamina and hand/eye co-ordination (for example). Most talented sports people are often quite good at just about everything they touch. They just have an affinity for certain traits. I recall back in school, many years ago, the entire year was profiled by doing a series of tests. They then gave us a list of sport's we'd be 'natural' at. This probably wouldn't tell the whole story, but it might give an insight into why some drivers do better in bad cars.

[raymondu999]

Interesting. Off-track benchmarking to see which driver could potentially be faster in certain cars. That's certainly a new train of thought.

[mnmracer]

Driver speed could (to a degree) be determined by a series of out of car tests, similar to an IQ test, but for reflexes, fitness, stamina and hand/eye co-ordination (for example). Most talented sports people are often quite good at just about everything they touch. They just have an affinity for certain traits. I recall back in school, many years ago, the entire year was profiled by doing a series of tests. They then gave us a list of sport's we'd be 'natural' at. This probably wouldn't tell the whole story, but it might give an insight into why some drivers do better in bad cars.

I think you'll find that physical things are not what makes a Formula One driver good.
It's the feeling for the car; feeling what it is going to do, finding the physical and technical limits of the car, translating the feeling of how the car feels to improve it.

[Cam]

So, muscular reflex, nerv touch, body strength, brain awareness, the list goes on, means nothing? Guess all those personal trainers are there for show.

There is no one way to demonstrate this. But we could try to identify character traits and certain physical attributes that may form a pattern. This may show people with a predisposition to performing well in motorsports.

Think of it like a science experiment. What tests and results could we measure that don't have high variables.