Mercedes GP 2011

[atanatizante]

How about the new guys are finding something fundamental wrong with the Bell`s car design and finally they will bring a mule car or an updated old car for the first 3 races and the new one for the first European season? Could this be a feasible scenario?

[Mr.S]

How about the new guys are finding something fundamental wrong with the Bell`s car design and finally they will bring a mule car or an updated old car for the first 3 races and the new one for the first European season? Could this be a feasible scenario?

Cars are not made in an autocratic way. Bell would consult his colleagues at Merc Benz & maybe Costa-Willis have already given a brief idea since they have talked with Bell months back.


Anyways there are 3 pre-season testing. If they want to debut a basic car like they did last year then they will do it in the 1st test & try & copy every innovative stuff & bring a massively improved car in TEST 3. Wether you have 20 % or 2% chance of winning you dont abandon the 1st few races,that is accepting defeat.

[Mr.S]

A few non-rhetorical questions for the regular posters in this thread (especially Xpensive, JET, munudeges, and Mr. S):

What would Mercedes GP need to achieve with the W03 for you to consider them a non-failure? Please be as specific as possible. What place in the constructors championship? What places in the drivers championship? How big of a point spread?

And what would be your answer to those same questions regarding the W04?

For me I want big improvements. Atleast 3rd in the contructors championship. Without EBD & larger wheelbase the gap would have sunk to under 1s per lap anyway to RB.


Even if they fight for 5-6th & just loose to 3rd spot in WCC to Ferrari/Mclaren by 20-25 points I would still be dissapointed. I want consistent podiums every 2-3 races. Maybe race wins would be too much of an ask but I want W03 to challenge RB/Ferrari/Mclaren for race wins in 1 or 2 races atleast.

This could probably be MSC's last season.Besides I dont know how long Nico will have to wait to get a win. I hope he does not become a Nick Heidfield or a Mark Webber because he has a lot of potential.

[xpensive]

While trying to recall the team's ambitions when presented two years ago, after taking over fresh WDC/WCC and ten something race winner Brawn GP, regular podiums and the occational win is of course already long overdue.

But for the owners, Daimler, anything less than a win for MS in his final Formula One season in order to celebrate the second coming would surely be considered a failure.

[bizadfar]

How about the new guys are finding something fundamental wrong with the Bell`s car design and finally they will bring a mule car or an updated old car for the first 3 races and the new one for the first European season? Could this be a feasible scenario?

Cars are not made in an autocratic way. Bell would consult his colleagues at Merc Benz & maybe Costa-Willis have already given a brief idea since they have talked with Bell months back.


Anyways there are 3 pre-season testing. If they want to debut a basic car like they did last year then they will do it in the 1st test & try & copy every innovative stuff & bring a massively improved car in TEST 3. Wether you have 20 % or 2% chance of winning you dont abandon the 1st few races,that is accepting defeat.

Ferrari:
2002?
2003?
2005? (okokok)

You can find heaps of examples in older eras but I admit they lose their relevance to today.
My point in bringing up the past, is that you guys are extremely quick to forget and just bicker at "issues" at hand completely hypothetically.

To that guy that works in a rotating environment (ie CEO per 6 years)? How big is the firm? Is it listed on exchanges???

Some of the comments and criticisms suggest to me that a lot of you don't have equivalent or relevant experience.
You work in an engineering design office.... ok cool... for who? A small company? A multi-national who works with teams all over the globe on a single project(s)??


Shut up till testing and GP 1 2012.

Oh wait, you're not capable of that!

[dren]

Progress.

If they finished 4th next year but made inroads on the time defecit they have on ferrari and McLaren, then that is progress.
Forget planet red bull, 1.2 second margin is just too large a gap for this team to contemplate.

The structures of what have now been put in place will not work perfectly and bedding in will be required. But it will need to show Stuttgart that it is moving forwards.

To start testing and discover the car is no better than the W02 will be a bitter pill. But I'm optimistic that this isn't the case for reasons I have expressed a few times now.

My personal expectations of the 03 is that it should be a podium challenger in some races. Not all but some.
The 04 will be expected to build on that and become a car capable of podiums and possibly a race win. My money is on the 05 being the car to challenge red bull.

With the changes in regulations, the W04 has a good chance of being a title contender. I would call the W03 a success if Mercedes finishes on the podium from time to time, maybe even win a race. I expect them as a team to finish 3rd next year. That was the goal for this year.

[skyhater]

A few non-rhetorical questions for the regular posters in this thread (especially Xpensive, JET, munudeges, and Mr. S):

What would Mercedes GP need to achieve with the W03 for you to consider them a non-failure? Please be as specific as possible. What place in the constructors championship? What places in the drivers championship? How big of a point spread?

And what would be your answer to those same questions regarding the W04?

For me I want big improvements. Atleast 3rd in the contructors championship. Without EBD & larger wheelbase the gap would have sunk to under 1s per lap anyway to RB.


Even if they fight for 5-6th & just loose to 3rd spot in WCC to Ferrari/Mclaren by 20-25 points I would still be dissapointed. I want consistent podiums every 2-3 races. Maybe race wins would be too much of an ask but I want W03 to challenge RB/Ferrari/Mclaren for race wins in 1 or 2 races atleast.

This could probably be MSC's last season.Besides I dont know how long Nico will have to wait to get a win. I hope he does not become a Nick Heidfield or a Mark Webber because he has a lot of potential.

I thought all the teams had agreed on the same wheelbase for this season , with a small margin
other teams seem to have managed just fine with that ....how can it have been MGP's problem ?

[raymondu999]

Same weight distribution (with a margin) but not same wheelbase

[Richard]

Mr S - RB took 5 years before their first win. It'll take time to dislodge one of the big 3.

[Richard]

double post

[Mr.S]

Brawn had the quickest car in their 4th season which won many races.

Honda was a much better team,MUCH better,even the remanants than the Jaguar or Minardi team Red Bull bought & developed. Mercedes are a factory team & have the backing of Stuggart & MERCEDES which is one an an automobile giant & whose engine is class of the field.

They have MS,the most successful driver in Formula 1 history & guys like Ross Brawn,Bob Bell. I expect regular podiums & the 3rd spot. BAR HONDA beat Mclaren earlier. Brawn beat both Ferrari-Mclaren. It is a reasonable expectation. If Mercedes cant win a single race in the next 2 years then they have no hope. 0 HOPE for a better future.

W04 has to be a winner with bell,costa & willis. W03 has to be a big improvement with bell & some inputs from willis-costa & full backing from Stuggart.

[marcush.]

I don´t think MS is considering retirement at this point but I´m sure Mercedes has imposed a minimum target to be met for next year and that would be competing within 1 sec of the front runners ,podium finishes on merit and No technical DNFs.

[Ferraripilot]

I don´t think MS is considering retirement at this point but I´m sure Mercedes has imposed a minimum target to be met for next year and that would be competing within 1 sec of the front runners ,podium finishes on merit and No technical DNFs.

I can agree with that. I believe this will determine if Schu retires or not as well. If the car is on the brink of something brilliant next year, I believe he will stay another year after. I've never seen a driver with so much hunger to compete and run at the front.

[xpensive]

What makes you think it's obvious that MGP wants MS to stay on beyond his three-year contract, when he will be a good 45?

Next year might be a bit of a gamble with the new aerodynamic/xhaust rules, where one of the following scenarios can unfold;

- The W03 gets everything right somehow and MS wins a few races, then calls it quits.
- Same story as this year, why Daimler decides to ditch NH, RB and MS alltogether.
- The W03 is a total disaster, Zetche has had enough and sells the team back to RB.

In the latter case, NH is ordered to consume a family-size humble pie and go see Ron Dennis to talk about 2014 and beyond.

[marcush.]

ah..simply put:
they have not ever questioned him even when things looked rather bleak but now when he is slowly reaching Rosbergs performance they hail him as the master of all .
I´m pretty sure someone in Mercedes is dreaming of a wonder 8th title with Schumacher which would be more than gold in terms of marketing value.
I think it´s Schumacher deciding not a case of Mercedes offering a drive .I don´t think Michael is saturated and maybe he would consider going elsewhere then..?