Mercedes GP 2011

[Mr.S]

I second Macush. I also laughted at the stupidity of the post above it because it has no sense of logic.

[Richard]

Brawn had the quickest car in their 4th season which won many races.

Honda was a much better team,MUCH better,even the remanants than the Jaguar or Minardi team Red Bull bought & developed.

The Brawn car was complete luck because they had the DDD jackpot for the first part of the season, then they dropped to the 4th team behind RB, Fer & McL for the second half of the season.

We can see from the personnel changes that they are building a completely new team.

Next year, they need to be a close 4th in the WCC, perhaps 50 to 80 points behind 3rd. Ideally they'd be aiming for 3rd in 2013, although that would mean beating Ferrari on current form. Thinking of who they have to beat makes one realise the size of their challenge to get higher than 4th.

They've lost 2 years with personnel changes, going around in circles trying to find the next magic bullet to replace the DDD. That's why they are still running 4th as they were when bought by Merc.

The complete change in leadership sets the clock back to zero, hopefully the wiser more experienced design leaders will realise it is all about hard work, rigour and evolution. No more excuses about tyres and weight balance, that sort of excuse tells us that they didn't understand what was going on. The new guys need to show they can learn from the mistakes and move forward.

[donskar]

No one asked me but success for M-B should be consistently fighting for podiums.

M-B's marketing people will probably measure success this way:
1) survey a representative group to detemine what they think of M-B before M-B entered F1 as a constructor. Sample questions could be something like, "How do you rate M-B as a builder of performance cars" or "as a technology leader."
2) at regular intervals check to see how the perception has changed
3) perception has changed at the desired rate: continue. Perception has not changed at desired rate: consider pulling the plug. Perception has moved in a negative direction: commmence terminations.

[xpensive]

...
The Brawn car was complete luck because they had the DDD jackpot for the first part of the season, then they dropped to the 4th team behind RB, Fer & McL for the second half of the season.

We can see from the personnel changes that they are building a completely new team.
...

Precisely richard, but Daimler didn't realize that two years ago, they surely thought they were buying a complete WCC-team.

@ Don; What does your salesman's gut-feel tells you about that percerption at this point in time?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 Richard

But the situation is very retrievable. From here, we are looking at the w05 to realistically expect something capable of mounting a challenge. Mercedes need time, and Daimler are showing patience despite being disappointed thus far.

[xpensive]

There you go JET, by the time the W05 has arrived we will have 2014, with a 60 year old Ross Brawn entering his seventh season at the helm of the Brackley team.

If the good honorary Doctor Brawn haven't figured out how to run an F1 team by then, my guess is that he never will.

[donskar]

...
The Brawn car was complete luck because they had the DDD jackpot for the first part of the season, then they dropped to the 4th team behind RB, Fer & McL for the second half of the season.

We can see from the personnel changes that they are building a completely new team.
...

Precisely richard, but Daimler didn't realize that two years ago, they surely thought they were buying a complete WCC-team.

@ Don; What does your salesman's gut-feel tells you about that percerption at this point in time?

X, Among the general public in the USA, I don't think there would be any change because M-B has done little or nothing to publicize their involvement in F1 (and I wonder why they haven't . . .). Among F1 fans in the US, I can not help but think the perception has gone down slightly (mine has). Among European F1 fans (NOT M-B fans), my gut feel is that the perception would be somewhat negative. Disclaimer: remember, your gut is directly in front of your you-know-what!

[Mr.S]

Brawn had the quickest car in their 4th season which won many races.

Honda was a much better team,MUCH better,even the remanants than the Jaguar or Minardi team Red Bull bought & developed.

The Brawn car was complete luck because they had the DDD jackpot for the first part of the season, then they dropped to the 4th team behind RB, Fer & McL for the second half of the season.

We can see from the personnel changes that they are building a completely new team.

Next year, they need to be a close 4th in the WCC, perhaps 50 to 80 points behind 3rd. Ideally they'd be aiming for 3rd in 2013, although that would mean beating Ferrari on current form. Thinking of who they have to beat makes one realise the size of their challenge to get higher than 4th.

They've lost 2 years with personnel changes, going around in circles trying to find the next magic bullet to replace the DDD. That's why they are still running 4th as they were when bought by Merc.

The complete change in leadership sets the clock back to zero, hopefully the wiser more experienced design leaders will realise it is all about hard work, rigour and evolution. No more excuses about tyres and weight balance, that sort of excuse tells us that they didn't understand what was going on. The new guys need to show they can learn from the mistakes and move forward.

It was teh 2nd quickest car & in the last 9-10 races trailed Red Bull by a solitary point. I posted every points scored a few pages back. You can check it.

Brawn was the quickest car in the season,second quickest by 1 point in the 2nd part,Barichello was winning races & Button was getting podiums or very close to that.


That & every win has been about finding the gaps in rules. EBD,RB7 is as big a fluke as BGP. WITHOUT EBD, Ferrari have a quicker car than RBR as demonstrated in Silverstone. EBD is as disputable as DD & most race winning cars stood out because they could find those gaps in rules.

Ofcourse the team was heavily scaled down still I feel it was a major upgrade from the Jaguar or Minardi Red Bull brought.

[Mr.S]

Besides I see no reason to be so pessimitic. W02 is less than 1s down in Japan. W03 needs 0.5s more pace relative to pole than W02 to compete for podiums. A very realistic expectation. Bob Bell is still good,lets us have faith. Rules are fairly stable & only the person who will best be able to use the exhaust change will get some advantage.

IF Mercedes cant win races with either W03 or W04 then Daimler might throw in the title. If W04 with Willis-Costa-Bell & fairly stable regulations cant win a race with good drivers than the chances of winning with W05 is even lesser with the 2014 change of regulations & Newey at Red Bull.

[donskar]

@ Mr S:

That & every win has been about finding the gaps in rules. EBD,RB7 is as big a fluke as BGP. WITHOUT EBD, Ferrari have a quicker car than RBR as demonstrated in Silverstone. EBD is as disputable as DD & most race winning cars stood out because they could find those gaps in rules.

Sorry if a little OT. You have identified what is IMHO a major failing in the current generation of F1: the rules are so restrictive that innovative design is subordinated to clever reading of the regulations.

[xpensive]

This one case was a tad special Don, when RB himself was leading FOTA's technical arm, which agreed on the diffuser for 2009.

[marcush.]

One can say that public opinion and expectations about Mercedes GP in germany is not really an issue at this time thanks to super Seb.
Lucky times for Norby...
I think Mercedes has underperformed long enough that outside pressure has simply evaporated and nobody expects anything special in terms of results.
Above all ..if Schu would score a miracle podium everyone would account this towards MS and not the team..hmmm...A situation that is not too comfy for Mercedes .

No .I think Rosberg will leave and be substituted by di Resta or someone and the old hand has to drag the thing out of the mud ...a bit too romantic true ....but let me dream a bit.

[Mr.S]

If Nico gets a drive for Ferrari with Alonso,Mclaren with Button or Red Bull wuth Vettel there is no reason for him to deny it. All three will be race winning & possibly championship winning cars.

With Mercedes there is no surity. If he had no problems racing with MSC with Brawn as TP considering MSC-Brawn relation & MSC's reputation as No.1 then surely Nico will be ready to take on anyone.

[xpensive]

One can say that public opinion and expectations about Mercedes GP in germany is not really an issue at this time thanks to super Seb.
Lucky times for Norby...
I think Mercedes has underperformed long enough that outside pressure has simply evaporated and nobody expects anything special in terms of results.
Above all ..if Schu would score a miracle podium everyone would account this towards MS and not the team..hmmm...A situation that is not too comfy for Mercedes .

No .I think Rosberg will leave and be substituted by di Resta or someone and the old hand has to drag the thing out of the mud ...a bit too romantic true ....but let me dream a bit.

Ferrari is Italian, nobody doubts that, Renault have French-built engines and McLaren is as British as tandoori chicken.

The strange thing with MGP is that with all this publicity on new engineers, when most people probably thought RB was one, everyone who's really into F1 would know there is nothing Mercedes or even German about the team xcept Norbert Haug.

Mercedes buyers not into F1 probably couldn't care less, unless a drver with the same passport as him/her wins?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Your mentality is as antiquated as the mountains X.

Ever hear of globalisation? Multi-nationalism?

Mercedes GP being in Britain is neither a negative or a positive, it is what it is. I see how you conveniently forget that Renault's team is also actually based in the UK, like most other teams.

Are you running out of things to poke at Mercedes to now have to question where the team is based?