Japanese GP 2011 - Suzuka

[RB7ate9]

Great race for Button, Sebastian has proven himself very much this season and righteously deserved the championship!

Does anyone know more about Webber's damaged front wing? Despite the damage, he was never called in to replace it and seemed to keep the pace. Also, I noticed that in the chase between Webber and Massa, Webber stayed off KERS even though he had a full charge going into the DRS zone, is there still a KERS issue with the RBR? Or at least with Webber's, since it was shown that Vettel managed to pump it while following Alonso.

Nacho, this race has definitely shown the main strength of the RB7 of being a clean-air pole-to-podium designed car, combining ideal aero with high top speed. Which can lead to the conclusion that much of the over-taking maneuvers on top-tier cars and drivers were down to driver-skill (and some DRS).

About backmarkers, there has to be some sort of regulation set up that would enable the bottom teams to get some more pace so that they aren't so often in the way of the podium contenders. On the last lap, there was a backmarker (HRT?) that he appeared to be awfully close to before the slower car moved out of the way, this happened a lot (particularly in the final 5-lap stretch) and has caused problems before. Allowance of in-season testing for the bottom 4 teams at the start of the season? Something. Anything, really.

[freedom_honda]

Anyone else find Jenson and Seb's exchange about the start before the podium interesting?

So that's how we are racing then

You don't normally see that kind of agression at the front of the grid. I think Seb's defending would have been fine if Jenson's front wheel wasn't alongside Seb's rear axle. You tend to stop pushing once the other car get alongside. Seb said to Jenson he did indeed see Jenson next to him yet Seb kept pushing him off, I think that's what annoyed Jenson.

Did it deserve a penalty? Probably not. But that doesn't mean it wasn't over-agressive from Seb.

The funny thing is Vettel complained about Alonso not giving him enough room at Monza when a very similar move was pull on Vettel by Alonso.

[raymondu999]

I think you misheard. Jenson said, "So you didn't see me at the start, then?" and Seb said he DIDN'T see him.

Vettel vs Alonso was different - that was on an overtaking move. The one that happened at Monza start was Alonso on the grass; but this was of Alonso's own volition; Hamilton and Vettel were side by side, and Alonso lurched to the right hand side of the track (inside of T1) and he didn't mind his right tyres on the grass

[Traction]

I think you misheard. Jenson said, "So you didn't see me at the start, then?" and Seb said he DIDN'T see him.

Vettel vs Alonso was different - that was on an overtaking move. The one that happened at Monza start was Alonso on the grass; but this was of Alonso's own volition; Hamilton and Vettel were side by side, and Alonso lurched to the right hand side of the track (inside of T1) and he didn't mind his right tyres on the grass

Freedom is right....at the end of the chat, just before they stand up and walk to the podium Button says 'so that's how we racing then hey'....

[andartop]

That was a good race on one of the best tracks, I still can't believe they tried to replace this with Fuji..

Congratulations to Seb and RBR for a well deserved title =D>

Also congrats to JB for the win and Alonso for being up there when he really shouldn't, though I think Vettel might have been a bit extra cautious just to secure the title as early as possible. Let's see how he will drive in the remaining 4 races.

With regards to the latest Hamilton incident, after all the aggression expressed by fellow forum members against Felipe it seems LH did the right thing and took responsibility (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2695 ... a-contact/) for what was clearly his fault: he might not have actually seen Massa, but he sure as hell knew he was way too slow out of 130R. Still, I don't think that was worthy of any penalty. Now we'll probably have a few posts explaining how it was not Lewis' fault, despite the fact he apologized for it..

As for the start, I really think Button should have kept his straight line, it was Vettel who had everything to lose and should have backed off, but either way the WDC would be his. Seems JB is too much of a nice guy. Maybe he can work on it for next year!

Here's hoping Ferrari and McLaren can be closer to RBR next year, with Mercedes up there too. A 7-way battle for the WDC would be excellent after what we had this year..(I'm excluding Massa for obvious reasons)

[freedom_honda]

I think you misheard. Jenson said, "So you didn't see me at the start, then?" and Seb said he DIDN'T see him.

Vettel vs Alonso was different - that was on an overtaking move. The one that happened at Monza start was Alonso on the grass; but this was of Alonso's own volition; Hamilton and Vettel were side by side, and Alonso lurched to the right hand side of the track (inside of T1) and he didn't mind his right tyres on the grass

I stand corrected. I just watched the post-race forum and Button said he spoke to Vettel afterwards. According to Button, Vettel said Vettel didn't see Button until Button dropped behind him.

[ringo]

What I saw was a Ferrari that had more tyre available (i.e less wear) than RB and McLaren. We've seen this used positively before with a fast degrading option tyre, but today was different in that the car was capable of getting the prime to work as well, which has been their Achilles heel in similar circumstances (by not getting to temperature). I think if Ferrari can maintain this good tyre wear / good temperature combination then they could well be right up there for the end of the season.

Perhaps you're right. I do believe that todays race was decided by tyre management though. Not saying that JB hasn't had raw speed lately but his ability to make tyres last today was a massive plus for him.

It's interesting though because Ferrari made no upgrades to the car this weekend, as far as I know. So I'm not sure whether the track suited them or that they actually figured out how to make the tyres work. After all they've had horrible traction the past few races.

Wow. JB wins but Lewis says he didn't have any grip? That has to be a first, hasn't it?
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/10/09/h ... king-race/

What do you think the difference is?

I believe it all comes down to the tyres. Even though lately JB has been very close to Lewis on raw speed, we've even witnessed it on qualifying, his good tyre management has been the advantage.

If I remember correctly, in Hungary, Lewis would always increase the gap to JB to about 9 seconds in the beginning of the stint. But towards the end of the stint JB would always close down the gap to about 3 4 seconds. That's about 5-6 seconds in just 5-6 laps. That happened twice, exactly the same way.

Lewis is definitely eating his tyres very aggressively. It could be his driving style, it could be the setup, it could be that he's pushing very hard on low-temp tyres. Perhaps that's the reason why JB always takes it easy on the tyres early on a stint.

Bottom line, in my opinion, the Pirelli tyre isn't working for Lewis. He's had the issue all year.

I don't agree with the tyres not suiting him. I don't think he likes them, but i don't think they suit one or the other.
The tyre is a resource remember. So you can use them in more than one way. If both were going from A to B they probably would reach in similar time but in different ways. Push early the cruise, cruise early then push.
What isn't working for him is his luck. too many organization problems since monaco.

[PlatinumZealot]

smikle - golda was just saying that Hamilton's early laps forced Vettel to push harder; and this destroyed his tyres, which in turn helped set the victory up for Button.

Yeah sure.

[PlatinumZealot]

Well Japan was a good race. Nothing too special though. I particularly was watching how Vettel reacts to having cars of near equal speed with his (now that the cars seem to be close in speed even the Ferrari).

I think that if the season started like how it is now, Vettel would just be like Vettel of 2010. A normal, mortal driver. Notice how frustrated he was at that backmarker. Waving his fist around like he's shooting dice. Frustrations setting in.. or VEttel's true colours showing up. Maybe the real Vettel we will see next year if Mclaren, Ferrari and Merc do a good job and we get more close races.

[marcush.]

bollocks.Vettel had no reason to swerve towards the right side but to block Button ...he said he had a very good start but somehow Button got away even better on the dirty side...
Vettel played hardball simple as that.I think it was a logic conclusion of what alanso did to him in Monza ...

As for Button ..he has really outshined Hamilton in this race . I think Hamilton and Button have different setups or maybe it´s just better suited to Jenson having the car a bit more understeery.

[myurr]

Well Japan was a good race. Nothing too special though. I particularly was watching how Vettel reacts to having cars of near equal speed with his (now that the cars seem to be close in speed even the Ferrari).

I think that if the season started like how it is now, Vettel would just be like Vettel of 2010. A normal, mortal driver. Notice how frustrated he was at that backmarker. Waving his fist around like he's shooting dice. Frustrations setting in.. or VEttel's true colours showing up. Maybe the real Vettel we will see next year if Mclaren, Ferrari and Merc do a good job and we get more close races.

Here's hoping. Would make for a much more interesting season.

[WhiteBlue]

Maybe the real Vettel we will see next year if Mclaren, Ferrari and Merc do a good job and we get more close races.

Wishful thinking of a Hamilton fan IMO. We know how good Vettel is and no talking down will change that.

[myurr]

bollocks.Vettel had no reason to swerve towards the right side but to block Button ...he said he had a very good start but somehow Button got away even better on the dirty side...
Vettel played hardball simple as that.I think it was a logic conclusion of what alanso did to him in Monza ...

Problem is the FIA have now effectively endorsed that behaviour. They haven't done anything to stop it from happening.

what i find interesting is that Vettel would have won had he not come out in traffic.
He would not have come out in front of Button when Button pitted later, but if you look near the end of the race where both he and Alonso were reeling button in.
Vettel may have done the same thing if he was ahead of Alonso, which he should have been without the traffic.

redbull seem to have setup the car pretty strangely this race. It had the long run pace, but it took many laps to kick in.

For each stint, it took Vettel a good number of laps to get up to speed and setting quick sectors.

I'm not sure that's the case. First stint Hamilton was keeping Vettel honest up to when he had his puncture. Vettel then had to pit on the next lap (maybe 2) because his own sector times were dropping off because of the tyres. He even came on the radio saying the rears were gone.

Second stint similar story but this time with Button just about hanging on to Vettel but then reeling him in at quite a rate of knots at the end of the stint.

Third stint similar story - the tyres were going off so he had to pit and put the hard tyres on. Those held up a fair bit better but we don't know Jenson's real pace at that stage of the race as he was in full fuel saving mode. We do know that he was able to set the fastest lap of the race as Alonso got close, so he had life in the tyres.

Were it not for traffic then Vettel's undercut may have worked, but it was in reaction to his tyres going off not because it was the optimal time for him, and all else being equal we could well have seen him being hounded at the end of the race by Alonso and / or Button.

[andartop]

I think that if the season started like how it is now, Vettel would just be like Vettel of 2010. A normal, mortal driver. Notice how frustrated he was at that backmarker. Waving his fist around like he's shooting dice. Frustrations setting in.. or VEttel's true colours showing up.

Let us not forget this was a championship deciding race. Remember how poorly others have performed under similar pressure, ie Lewis in Brazil 2008, Button in Brazil 2009, Webber and Alonso in Abu Dhabi last year..

[vall]

Ah, I found what I wanted – an interview with Massa...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95216

Funny to see him raging again after another race where he collides with Hamilton, Hamilton comes off worse, and then comes back to finish ahead.

There are alot of similarities with the singapore incident, i.e. One driver trying to overtake another on the outside, the driver on the outside makes contact and damages his car. Obviously in the singapore incident massa also suffered. but the point im making is that if ham was to blame in singapore, and lets assume without the usual BS that he was. Then surely we must also say that massa was to blame for this incident. I know the corners are different, with different closing speeds etc etc. but I think the point i'm making is valid that Massa is being a bit hypocritical in once again having ago at Ham when I see this incident as his fault. Also note that I have only seen the race once and i am therefore only going off the benefit of the bbc coverage and replays. I am also not being bias towards any one driver before we get into the usual 'fanboy' criticisims.

they were both LH's fault! Today he clearly drove into Massa, very similar to the Spa incident with Koba