Mercedes GP 2011

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Only time will tell, until then this thread is doomed to go round and round and round and round and round ...

+1

Is it? The new leadership team hasn't even started yet. They'll not deliver a car until the 2013 season.

+1

I thought Mercedes only had 1 Technical director.....

You thought wrong then

Oh right, may I ask what you base your assumptions on? Because thats what it is, an assumption. you do not have the first inkling how Mercedes operates, and you bypass their very clear statements of the hierarchy of Mercedes technical operations at Brackley.

It's taken them, what, two years to take the advice of some esteemed members on this board and recruit better technical staff?

So you expect a knee jerk reaction, and "sack the lot of em" mentality? You talk about politics, yet somehow escape the way Toyota and others operated. Not working? Sack em! How did that work out for Toyota? Hmmm

As for "taking esteemed members advice on this board", If it was only so easy....
Thing is, Mercedes are paying the bills. You dont have to like it, you dont have to post how "inadequate" they are. If you are prepared to foot the bill, or show that you are capable enough of running an F1 team, Im certain your opinions would be validated.
However that you are in neither position leads me to believe the opposite.

There has been enough negativity surrounding this team from certain "esteemed members". This would be fine in its own right, but there is no substance to it.
I know full well the mods are aware of this thread and the trouble it has caused them, I think it has now run its course for reasons Richard put succinctly.

Moaning about a teams structure is the most absurd thing I have read on these pages. The combined knowledge of Brawn and Bell should tell you a thing or 2 about structures.
I guess the calibre of the acquisitions Mercedes have made has just made "certain esteemed members" more sour and polarised than ever before.

Round and round we go...

[peterskelton]

So lets stop the merry go round, all get off, have a few drinks together and get back to the original topic..... Deal

[Mr.S]

I already said why bell should not be TP. Bell is the last person in the world that should be TP in my book. He shuns media,does not like publicity or limelight & has never been a TP sort of guy.

I wouldn't really be interested in whether he shuns publicity or not. Red Bull have raised the bar in terms of what's required to start winning, and for a car manufacturer like Mercedes there is no point if you're not winning. To do that teams have to become focused completely on engineering from the top down and as far as I'm concerned Bell would make a far better job of demanding what he needs from Daimler.

There can be no spare parts and individuals hiding behind others and claiming glory and reputation that they're not really entitled to, and I suspect that's been going on in many teams as their staff numbers have increased over the years.

DO you know what the job of a TP is???

Co-ordinate between the Technical Director & Engine group??Work with new recruitments & fire people??? Work on the pubclity,advertisements,promote the team. TALK to the media every week ranging from stategu to tyre choices to plan for the future. Toe the Mercedes company line & flatter the Mercedes brand & its drivers. Be diplomatic. Be a part of FOTA & attend meeting,attend meeting with Bernie.

Work team strategies. POLITICIZE if needed.

Do you really think Bob Bell,an out & out technical guy & aerodynamist is suited for this role. Personally I think this will be the most stupid appointment ever & I dont think Mercedes can be that stupid.

This will be as stupid as making Whitemarsh a Technical Director & Paddy Lowe Team principal.

Bell was never a Team Principal kind of guy. He was forced to be on for 1 year because all top TOP Renault guys were fired from F1 due to the Singapore fiasco & to save the team,he had to step in a position he never liked & which he never was very good at.

[Mr.S]

Yea I kind of agree with JET,it's stupid debating structures.
...

Right, anything else you regard as being stupid to debate, which we therefore should avoid?

Myself, I find it rather interesting to debate a management structure which is clearly moving from one corner to the other within a year. From having no technical director, to all of a sudden have three of them, although with different labels?

Look none of us know how Merc works so its no use saying they will fight & mess up. They have not even started. PRE-ASSUMPTIONS & foretelling in some cases are stupid.


When debating team-structures all I can give is what I think best which is purely an opinion & means nothing more.

[xpensive]

[...]

[Mr.S]

The 1st race in 2012 is like 4-5 months away & then we have the full 2012 season.

2013 is way far. The car would start to be developed from August/September like 10-11 months after. The whole 2012 season will be 75% over with much in-season development taking place too.

That is very far away now. If F1 every second matters. We have 3 races left,few months off & then the 1st tests in February. That is what we should focus on now.

[Richard]

who seriously doubts this form of leadership will ever start to work properly.

That needs some correction. I think we all agree that a single TD with 2 deputies for mech and aero is a reasonable way to set up an F1 design team? Merc have that now.

The doubt expressed by some is whether the particular personalities will work together. Some say that the have huge egos and will argue all the time, others say they are old enough and wise enough to work as a team. Others say that we barely know who they are so we are in no place to judge.

[munudeges]

Is it? The new leadership team hasn't even started yet. They'll not deliver a car until the 2013 season.

The clock has already been ticking for two years and they've only just taken at least a little of the advice of a few esteemed forum members.

[munudeges]

Do you really think Bob Bell,an out & out technical guy & aerodynamist is suited for this role. Personally I think this will be the most stupid appointment ever & I dont think Mercedes can be that stupid.

Sweetheart, he's already been a Team Principal, he's been around the block more times than Brawn ever has and his even hand was the one who picked Renault out of the toilet after Singapore 2008 and kept them in the sport.

he had to step in a position he never liked....which he never was very good at.

I can't see what this assessment is based on, but I suppose we'll have to bow to your obvious and considerable knowledge on the subject.

[Mr.S]

Do you really think Bob Bell,an out & out technical guy & aerodynamist is suited for this role. Personally I think this will be the most stupid appointment ever & I dont think Mercedes can be that stupid.

Sweetheart, he's already been a Team Principal, he's been around the block more times than Brawn ever has and his even hand was the one who picked Renault out of the toilet after Singapore 2008 and kept them in the sport.

he had to step in a position he never liked....which he never was very good at.

I can't see what this assessment is based on, but I suppose we'll have to bow to your obvious and considerable knowledge on the subject.

He's been a Team Principal for 1 year when Renault was in a --- hole & had no one to come forward & make sure that the team carried on racing. 1 year & he's back to the position he is good at.

Ross Brawn has been Team Principal for 4 years atleast,he is heading into his 5th year. He co-ordinated various departments in ferrari working over technical genuines like Byrne while Bell all his life was being an aerodynamist. Ross has been thorugh Williams-Benetton-Ferrari-Honda(then brawn & mercedes) & various small teams in capacities while Bell has been TD & aerodyamist in all his life.

Bell has never done a great job as Team Principal,he was never great at managing the media & in many other stuff.

You dont have to bow to my obvious knowledge I am not asking for that. I am asking for you to end your continous idiotic posts which you make because you get some sadistic pleasure in trolling.

[raymondu999]

Bell was never TP for a full year. He only took over in late September (when crash gate came to full light) and Boullier took over during the winter

[mep]

The 1st race in 2012 is like 4-5 months away & then we have the full 2012 season.

2013 is way far. The car would start to be developed from August/September like 10-11 months after. The whole 2012 season will be 75% over with much in-season development taking place too.

That is very far away now. If F1 every second matters. We have 3 races left,few months off & then the 1st tests in February. That is what we should focus on now.

No.
Developing of a F1 car starts around 18 months before the first race. So they start right now to think of the 2012 car. Well actually they already think of the 2014 cars too.

[Mr.S]

Bell was never TP for a full year. He only took over in late September (when crash gate came to full light) and Boullier took over during the winter

There was talk of Renault being kicked out of the sport with all senior guys being kicked out anyway,so Bell was literally forced to step up & make sure the team continous running & is stabilized. There was no1 fit enough for the job & no-one would have gone over & become Team Principal with talk of the team being shown the door,besides they would not have known the team,it's employees,what they were going through.

Bell being a TP for Merc is a recipe for disaster. WORST IMAGINABLE JOB for Bell.

[Mr.S]

The 1st race in 2012 is like 4-5 months away & then we have the full 2012 season.

2013 is way far. The car would start to be developed from August/September like 10-11 months after. The whole 2012 season will be 75% over with much in-season development taking place too.

That is very far away now. If F1 every second matters. We have 3 races left,few months off & then the 1st tests in February. That is what we should focus on now.

No.
Developing of a F1 car starts around 18 months before the first race. So they start right now to think of the 2012 car. Well actually they already think of the 2014 cars too.

It does not. Because before 18 months The F1 frigging rules are not even in place. The exhaust & nose changes are so big it can alter the car philosophy.


Mercedes are not even into their design fully. Ross just gave an interview where he said they are designing the gearbox for next year & finalizing designs & concepts.

Newey a couple of weeks said the same he has only started designing the suspension & basic ideas of the chasis. Every year there is some MAJOR rule change & it is impossible to design a car 18 months in advance with the present resources under RRA.

[Ferraripilot]

In the meantime Adrian Newey has made it known that he is not going to any more races this season so he can concentrate on RB8. I bet anything they are running behind compared to where they wanted to be with RB8 this season.

Ferrari, Mclaren, MB will all close the gap a bit. I would not rule out a more positive 2012 just yet as I have no doubt Bob Bell has been held up in a design studio somewhere working on W03. How many races have we seen him at? None. He is up to something.