Ferrari 150° Italia

[shelly]

We are a seeing a new implementation of copying in F1. Till now copying was limited to applying the same solution with a similar gerometry: this ferrari wing, instead, is more similar to its rbr counterpart than the TF103 was to the f2002.

[ergenomic]

I retract my previous statement about Ferrari only copying the CF layering technique to achieve a greater level of flexibility! Designs converging and completely ripping of a stolen component are two different things.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I retract my previous statement about Ferrari only copying the CF layering technique to achieve a greater level of flexibility! Designs converging and completely ripping of a stolen component are two different things.

Well let's be completely clear here, the Ferrari FW is not an exact replication of the RBR FW. There are still many differences. See below:

RBR



Ferrari




While similar in many ways, there's just as many that are different so let's be cautious when saying it's an exact replica

[Intego]

Wrong comparison. When Ferrari made the new wing they could (should) not know the RB7 Korea wing. The main wing elements are shaped similar to the RB6 wing, the cascades are generally similar to the RB6/7 as well as to many other wings.

What I think is most evident that Ferrari has now for the first time a well performing flexing front wing. And Alonso does not want to talk about it.

[Pierce89]

We are a seeing a new implementation of copying in F1. Till now copying was limited to applying the same solution with a similar gerometry: this ferrari wing, instead, is more similar to its rbr counterpart than the TF103 was to the f2002.

no, it's actually almost identical to the current Sauber wing, much more similar to that than the Red Bull wing

[shelly]

@pierce: I have not checked out last suaber front wing, but if you see the picture of ferrari and rbr you will agree with that difference between their front wings is marginal.
Also what impresses me is the complete revolution made by ferrari with this wing, cmpared to their past wing - it's a complete different type of wing compared to their previous one, and almost identical to their competitors'.

Why do you say they are not similar? Maybe it's me who have not seen something that differentiates them

[Skunk0001]

The word from Italian colleagues is that the new wing wasn’t intended to transform the performance of the 2011 car, but to understand how the front end of the rival RB7 works and influences the aerodynamic balance of the car. The set up of the RB7 is notably deeply raked and this worked perfectly in terms of aero balance and feeding the rear diffuser with a high pressure air flow.

The configuration of the Ferrari in Korea was not able to give the car a gain in terms of speed on the straight and on the fast corners, however it is believed to have improved rapid direction changes.

Source: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/w ... y-started/

[amouzouris]

The word from Italian colleagues is that the new wing wasn’t intended to transform the performance of the 2011 car, but to understand how the front end of the rival RB7 works and influences the aerodynamic balance of the car. The set up of the RB7 is notably deeply raked and this worked perfectly in terms of aero balance and feeding the rear diffuser with a high pressure air flow.

The configuration of the Ferrari in Korea was not able to give the car a gain in terms of speed on the straight and on the fast corners, however it is believed to have improved rapid direction changes.

Source: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/w ... y-started/

which proves what i've been saying...!

[shelly]

@pierce: I have checked sauber's ront wing. There's muche more differnece between suaber and ferrari than between ferrari and redbull. For example the endplate is a different concept: suaber's is like old ferrari endplate, with new ferrari endplate much closer to redbull's.

Maybe I overlooked something - can you please give explainations or provide pictures to support your opinion?

[munudeges]

The word from Italian colleagues is that the new wing wasn’t intended to transform the performance of the 2011 car, but to understand how the front end of the rival RB7 works and influences the aerodynamic balance of the car.

That much is certain, but it does raise the question of where they got the imitation RB7 wing from. Maybe Newey's off-the-cuff remark about half the wing being in Maranello at Monza was right.

I still find it a pretty inefficient desperate thing to do though, to carte blanche copy parts and put them on the car. They're going to need a lot of testing track time if they're going to do things like that, which they don't have. It's not a good sign that they understand what is really happening.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

Damn, so in three weeks Ferrari is able to take and copy a front wing, and put in their car ? Are you serious ?

Damn.. They are bloody fast. It's strange, i didn't hear the same thing when all the grid copy the wheel cover, or the placement of the mirror, or the front wing pillar...

[shelly]

I do not think that ferrari have retroengineered webber front wing.
But given that monza was on September 11th, they would have had the time to do that.
It is more than three weeks, Lorenzo, and do not forget that they are working on shifts and on weekends.

[gerishnikov]

Damn, so in three weeks Ferrari is able to take and copy a front wing, and put in their car ? Are you serious ?

Damn.. They are bloody fast. It's strange, i didn't hear the same thing when all the grid copy the wheel cover, or the placement of the mirror, or the front wing pillar...

Easily done in three weeks,

[aral]

So Horner was correct when Vettels front wing went missing after his shunt in Suzuka. He said that it was on the way to Maranello!

[myurr]

Easily done in three weeks,

No it's not, not even close. They may just about be able to manufacturer it in time, but if it was just an exact copy of the RB wing then it simply wouldn't work on the car at all.

There was a great quote from Jonathan Neale in the after race show in Korea where he was talking about the RB vs McLaren cars with the BBC team and said explicitly that you cannot just take a design from one car and put it on another and expect it to work. The interactions on these cars are so detailed and finely tuned that you have to tailor every piece and make them work in harmony.

So for Ferrari to blatantly copy the Red Bull wing for their car having received a copy of the original would require weeks and weeks of analysis, study, design, refinement and the manufacturing to even get it to perform as well as the existing Ferrari wing.