McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[raymondu999]

I'd suggest it's a possibilty that their front-wing was 'shedding' downforce/drag (the tilting back flexi front-wing) at too low a speed - leading to their understeer.

It would be a set up issue for both drivers as a result of lack of running on friday - and something McLaren would not want to say in public.

It seems like they've already lost that wing though. Haven't seen it for a while. I think possibly the theory of marbles getting lodged inside the slots could be quite valid actually in hindsight.

[Shrieker]

Tyre marbles getting stuck in a fw slot for Lewis, and debris strike on Jenson's fw is the reason for understeer they say. Might be true, given Lewis wasn't doing too bad after the SC (closed within half a sec. of Vettel) but after that started losing performance (relative to Vettel); probably around some time there in the race the fw got clogged up.

[Javert]

I read the Whitmarsh story and not sure I want to accept it ...

We've done 16 races this season, never listened about marbles or debris going into the front wing and removing much df. Seems an unlucky thing for a driver, but what's the probability both the drivers, in the same race, got affected?

[MIKEY_!]

And why don't thew rest of the field complain of this

[myurr]

Button wasn't affected to the same degree, nor are they claiming the same issue, so that's probably a distraction.

Lewis's car was visibly understeering massively where it had previously had a strong front end (and in qualifying was a little bit oversteery). So something was up.

We also know that they do have wire mesh grills on the brake ducts because of tyre rubber, and you can see the splattering of rubber that builds up on the barge boards and turning vanes. It's a real problem on other parts of the car and whilst it's certainly unlucky it's not improbable that it can happen to the front wing when running close to another car.

[myurr]

Further, here's a picture illustrating the problem. This is Lewis's car during the Suzuka GP.



You can see the splattering of rubber on the turning vane behind the front wheels. You can also see the grills on the brake ducts. And if you look carefully you can see bits of rubber stuck to those grills.

Now those brake ducts are not getting rubber sprayed at them from the cars own tyres, it's going to be rubber lifted up by the front wing or already in the air from cars in front.

So it's obviously a real problem and Lewis is just unlucky enough to be the first person properly affected by it.

[wesley123]

I read the Whitmarsh story and not sure I want to accept it ...

We've done 16 races this season, never listened about marbles or debris going into the front wing and removing much df. Seems an unlucky thing for a driver, but what's the probability both the drivers, in the same race, got affected?

We have heard drivers complain about these marbles hitting them on their hands. Apart from DRS and the Sky deal this is one thing to be changed, the amount of marbles off track is ridiculous

[PlatinumZealot]

Loss of 10 points of downforce. That's alot! There is something that Mclaren have not quite got their finger on. The Bulls are still the ones to beat for rest of the season. I don't buy the wing clogging story - Macca just lost Df. It could be some new mapping with the engine or some new body part that began to flex after a few laps. Remember in qually you only run a few laps at a time, and P3 was limited running.

McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh has revealed that Lewis Hamilton lost about 10 points of downforce early in the Korean Grand Prix because of an unidentified problem.

During the race we are concentrating, but during the first stint we could see a loss and when I asked what it is, quantify, it - I was told 10 points," he added.

"I don't know whether there was damage, whether we have got some rubber in the slot of whatever, but in fairness Jenson was losing front downforce as well so it is something.

"We had a shocking first lap and we need to understand that – maybe there is something we are doing wrong on the first lap but that is not the first time we have had a shocking first lap, to come around second and eighth after the first lap is not quite what we had in mind."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95466

[Javert]

So they're not sure it's a rubber piece that caused the loss of df

Strangely enough, they say they lost df on the 1st lap where, at times, McLaren
were on pace with bulls. Hamilton seemed suffer graining with SS at end of stints, which obviously
can be a consequence of 10pt less front df, and with softs simply couldn't get front grip.
If the story of 10pts is true, then McL could have won easily this race.
Otherwise they need to seriously work on front DF or what they lacks

[MIKEY_!]

Maybe they should copy RBR's front wing like Ferrari.
But seriously now, it is just unfortunate that they didn't get enough dry running in practice, had they had that I think they could have won. They still had a great car anyway.

[PlatinumZealot]

Why? Dry running does not make downforce. Hamilton thought webber's car was a good one second faster in race. Makes sense as that's the only explanation of why Button could catch him even though he was being back up by Hamilton. And let's face it, Dry running was equal for every one. RedBull just has that bit extra to play with.



I need Mclaren to have a dominant car for next year, but I'm not pretending that they have caught the bulls. A dominant car is a car that allows you flexible strategies and comfortable leads. Exactly what Vettel and Webber have been having for the last few races.

Japan and Singapore were just bad luck on RedBull's part, but they had the top pace there as well.

[raymondu999]

If Singapore was unlucky for Red Bull I shudder to think how they would perform if lucky...

I think possibly McLaren were matches for Red Bull this race - just the marbles getting in the slots that were stalling the front wing was giving them massive understeer. Or...

smikle - I remember you quoted an article to me the other day; that Lewis had gone for a setup to conserve tyres. Perhaps they tried to do that by inducing understeer to cover the rears from any graining, but went overboard on it? Do you still have the article link?

[PlatinumZealot]

Not really, if you watch Q3, the car was easy to induce over steer. Ham and Button were rotating the car using the back axle in a number of turns. Something just went wrong in the race, whether it be tyres, EBD, warped floor etc.

And I still don't see how Mac could be a match for Red Bull. All evidence shows otherwise. 10 points is significant but it's not really worth 1 second a lap. 20 to 30 points is about 1 second a lap difference going by recent pointers.

If everything was all good and set up on the Mac, i still see a half a second slower race car. And you would too if Webber undercut Ham in the pits and we got that Webber Vettel fight for win, then we would have seen the true pace of the bulls, Button and Hamilton would be dropped like a hot potato - Victory of over 30 seconds to the Bulls... easy peasy.

Mcleren is close, but still need a few tweaks to have a comfortable win on any given race day.

[raymondu999]

While Vettel did the fastest lap that was 8.5 tenths quicker than Hamilton's; I don't think that tells the full picture. McLaren I don't think are THAT far off. We need to remember that Vettel would just be taking it consistently and ensuring he doesn't tax the tyres too much; while Hamilton would have been maximizing his corner exits and entries to defend.

In qualifying the nose was very strong I agree - and yes Hamilton was using the rear to spin the car around quite a bit. Hard to imagine Button doing that though; given his driving style

While 10 points might not equal a second, don't forget that this was 10 points all localized - all in one place; the front. The direct loss of downforce might not have been enough for 1 second, but the resulting loss of balance, and understeer, would mean that the fronts would be scrubbing off speed a lot, and you can't take the corners as fast - it's not just a general loss of downforce that you have to account for.

[Owen.C93]

And I still don't see how Mac could be a match for Red Bull. All evidence shows otherwise. 10 points is significant but it's not really worth 1 second a lap. 20 to 30 points is about 1 second a lap difference going by recent pointers.

10 points from only the front is a huge imbalance though, Lewis said he had his diff and other setting maxed out and it was still bad. It could be getting close to a second, maybe 7 tenths after everything was adjusted.