Mercedes GP 2011

[Ferraripilot]

Winning by 2013 is not at all an unreasonable goal. Remember only now are they going to be operating with a fully staffed world championship team. This should be a springboard for them to really start hitting heavy 2013 and beyond.

[Cocles]

Something else occurred to me with all of this talk of Mercedes GP's new "Front Wing F-Duct" for the W03. In 2010 we know they were developing a a passive Rear Wing F-Duct that required no input from the driver.

I have to wonder if Brawn and company were betting heavily on *active* F-Ducts being banned. This would have given them a development edge for the W02. But when F-Ducts were banned outright, it really pulled the the rug out from under them.

With the W02's SWB reducing drag, coupled with the only F-Duct in the field for at least the start of the 2011 season, the W02 would have been even faster in the straights, out-dragging everything in the field.

My point? If this is true, then Brawn *has* been pushing, even before Bell showed up. We just never saw the fruits of his labor due to the outright ban, so it looked as though he were stagnant.

TLDR: Mercedes GP gambled and lost, which stripped the W02 of the ace it was going to have up its sleeve. Hence we've had this disappointing season.

[MIKEY_!]

WOW, how much speed were the f-ducts adding last year. That on top of DRS would have been incredible.

[Hemsy]

Kudos to Merc for trying to be innovative. You can try to clone RBR as most of the grid are doing but you'll never be as good as they are. Sure Merc tried to be innovative this year as well with the SWB, double radiators & failed but this is where Bob Bell comes in. He will let the team be innovative where the rewards outweigh the risk yet take a more conventional approach when the opposite is true. Looking forward to the final few races to see what other new parts Merc test for next year.

[LionKing]

WOW, how much speed were the f-ducts adding last year. That on top of DRS would have been incredible.

They both shed drag. I don't think the gains would have been additive or two concept could exist together...

[raymondu999]

I think it could actually be counterproductive to use an F-duct on a DRS activated wing

[Mr.S]

Well, not only do I recall McLaren making significant headway in 1997 where they won races through the speed of their car but I don't recall them being consistently over a second off the pace of the front-runners either. I don't recall them being in a winning position, as Brawn was in 2009, and then throwing it away and saying how fourth place was then such a brilliant achievement. McLaren was always in contention for at least race wins, which for Mercedes is rather a pipe dream right now.

30 years and 4th over a 3 year period is better than what Mercedes are doing in only their second season?
dont make me laugh.

Well Mercedes GP is probably more than 40 years old dating from Tyrell to Honda(BAR HONDA),Brawn & finally Mercedes. It's not a new team like Hispania are.

Mercedes have reached the limit of RRA with their staff,people most of whom are erstwhile HONDA employees & who have been involved in Formula 1 for decades. Now they have Bob Bell(Technical Director) with Costa & Willis under him. Ross Brawn as Team Principal & MSC as driver.

The whole line-up says it all. They should have actually be winning races from 2012 & challenging for championships,the manpower has been increased & Ross himself said that this has been helping them. W03 will be Bell's baby who had designed back to back title winning cars in 2005 & 2006.

Plus Willis has already started working & Costa will join soon,both of whom will have a big role in in-season development of W03.

Mercedes are actually getting a bonus year,because Bob Bell alone might not be able to produce the fastest car on the grid & Costa-Willis will take time to gel & work in tandem.


THERE IS NO EXCUSE NOR REASON to fail JET bro. Mercedes must success & at the earliest.

[Giblet]

As a thread that has turned into nothing more than an argument, I will be cleaning it.

[MIKEY_!]

I think it could actually be counterproductive to use an F-duct on a DRS activated wing

Not if it's powerful enough. Stall the main wing and still lift the flap. It wouldn't be additive but if we took a lower AoA wing from last year it would be closer.

[raymondu999]

Good point; I forgot teams switched to stalling the main plane last year

[dren]

Brawn thinks there are EBD loopholes still to be filled.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95536

[raymondu999]

I could be missing something, but I don't quite see the loopholes; they seem ironclad enough for me. But then again that's probably why I'm not hired as a Formula 1 Engineer

[Coefficient]

I think it could actually be counterproductive to use an F-duct on a DRS activated wing

I don't think so. If you remember there were at least 2 schools of thought with the F duct, one stalling the flap and one stalling the main plane. DRS takes the flap out of the equation so F duct could have been used to stall the main plane. I'm sure the compound reduction in drag would have been more beneficial than that achieved with one of the devices.

That said, reattaching air flow may have been very complex to manage as if I recall correctly Mercedes complained of difficulty in this area both in 2010 and 2011.

Anyway, I don't think the front duct is a stalling device. Rather, I think it used in a similar way to the exhausts on the Red Bull by producing to streams of energised air flow, one either side of the unworked air coming off the mandated central section of front wing. This, virtual skirt may be used to prevent turbulent air from outer wing elements and wheel assembly from entering the clean air in the central section thus feeding the bib splitter and undertray more efficiently.

[raymondu999]

Yep - which is why I then said:

Good point; I forgot teams switched to stalling the main plane last year

[munudeges]

Brawn is simply uncomfortable that someone will find avenues of development his team can't think of, and he'd be right. Exhausts have always been critical to aerodynamics and that isn't going to stop now.