The real reason for gathering marbles?

[PlatinumZealot]

We all hear that the drivers drive over the marbles at the end of the race to add to the weight of the car. But when I really think about it, the cars are already legally weighted!

I mean could it be they are using the marbles to cover the condition of the tyres from prying eyes? Or maybe I am just making a big deal out of it. What do you guys think?

[beelsebob]

We all hear that the drivers drive over the marbles at the end of the race to add to the weight of the car. But when I really think about it, the cars are already legally weighted!

I mean could it be they are using the marbles to cover the condition of the tyres from prying eyes? Or maybe I am just making a big deal out of it. What do you guys think?

The cars are weighed both before and after the race to make as sure as possible that they were above weight at all times during the race. The drivers pick up the marbles for the second weigh in.

[raymondu999]

Yep. Pretty much what beelsebob said I think. Having said that it is an intriguing thought. And as an aside, why is 3rd ahead of 2nd in that parc ferme podium parking lot?

[Richard]

To be pedantic, all cars are weighed at the end of the race as this is when a car is at its lightest. Also a car weighed before the race could be interfered with to remove weight.

The water cooled brakes saga is a great example of teams will do to beat the scrutineers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISA%E2%80 ... led_Brakes

Tyrell also used water injection to cool the engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_Ra ... ontroversy

Only a random sample go to the scrutineers between Q1 and the race, and that may or may not include weighing.

All cars in Q3 are weighed. This is highlighted as a new clause in 2011 regs, but I don't have the 2010 regs to spot the difference.

A car only has to be legal once competition starts, ie Q1. A team can run anything they like in FP, provided it is safe and has been crash tested. That's how they are allowed to run with aero test kit on the car.

Similarly they could be under weight or have less than 1 litre of fuel if they wanted in FP. For example teams will run a car dry at the start of the season to test the fuel consumption.

I've uploaded a sample of the stewards reports so you can see what they test.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dg8nadvznk1mblc

Here's an extract of the regs.

26) WEIGHING

26.1 a) During the qualifying practice session cars will be weighed as follows :

1) The FIA will install weighing equipment in the first pit garage (the FIA garage) which will be used for the weighing procedure.

2) Cars taking part in Q1 and Q2 will be selected at random to undergo the weighing procedure.

3) When signalled to do so the driver will proceed directly to the FIA garage and stop his engine.

4) The car will then be weighed with driver and the result given to the driver or a team representative in writing.

5) At the end of the qualifying session all cars which took part in Q3 will be weighed. If a driver wishes to leave his car before it is weighed he must ask the technical delegate to weigh him in order that this weight may be added to that of the car.

6) if the car is unable to reach the FIA garage under its own power it will be
placed under the exclusive control of the marshals who will take the car to be weighed.

7) a car or driver may not leave the FIA garage without the consent of the FIA technical delegate.

8 ) if a car stops on the circuit and the driver leaves the car, he must go to the FIA garage immediately on his return to the pit lane in order for his weight to be established.

b) After the race every classified car will be weighed. If a driver wishes to leave his car before it is weighed he must ask the technical delegate to weigh him in order that this weight may be added to that of the car.

[mep]

They do it to add weight. Why should they hide the tires from their competitors? They all use the same tires. Even if one team uses them more than the others. So be it.
I have heard they can pick up to 3kg of rubber. Sounds very much but even if its just 1kg its still worth to do it.

[raymondu999]

Having said that EJ said a while back that it doesn't matter as the FIA can request the tyres be replaced with a set that has been used previously in the race

[beelsebob]

Having said that EJ said a while back that it doesn't matter as the FIA can request the tyres be replaced with a set that has been used previously in the race

Yep, but better safe than sorry – the FIA can chose any one of 2/3/4 tyre sets, any one of those could cause the car to be underweight, it's best to take one of them out of the equation and make sure they're nice and heavy.

[Richard]

Good point. So if a diver ran his tyres down to the canvas he would be very low. Luckily Hamilton didn't finish the race in China 07!

[raymondu999]

This whole thing reminds me of that hidden fuel BAR a few years back...

[Richard]

On reflection, the idea of using any set of tyres is less relevant with refuelling banned. If the FIA put on the tyres from early in the race the team will simply say the car had a lot of fuel at that point in tthe race.

[raymondu999]

Are the regs defined as minimum 640kg weight at all times, or is that dry weight? I thought it was dry weight (no oil/fuel)

[PlatinumZealot]

On reflection, the idea of using any set of tyres is less relevant with refuelling banned. If the FIA put on the tyres from early in the race the team will simply say the car had a lot of fuel at that point in tthe race.

Yeah, the FIA can use a new set of tyres. Especially if it rained in a race where the rain tyres have different weight from the dry tyres. They provide the tyres so they know the tyres are legal, what they are interested in is the car! So yeah that is why I was a little suspect of this marble gathering thing.. and if there are any competitive reasons behind it.

But to dabble in the posts above:
You start the race with your car 640kg, driver no fuel EXACTLY..
You do the race, your driver loses 2kg, a piece of your FW gets hit off (.5kg?) and your tyre scrub down to the cliff (give me a figure of material loss here). You got your 2 litres of fuel in the tank (say 1.4kg).

Realistically, how much underweight could the car get? Any ideas?

[raymondu999]

Would a large part of the driver's weight loss not be in sweat, which would get weighed along with the driver anyways?

[gridwalker]

Depends how much evaporates from the heat in the cockpit ...

[marcush.]

hm..I have cleaned a fair share of tyres in my life but I have difficulty to imagine you could add significant weight with the marbles you can collect in a cool down lap.
What you can add is significant ride height when you need to produce a certain amount of it ..but that´s not an issue with F1...

So we got 4 tyres with 660mm diameter and say 355 and 380 maximum width ..that´s roughly 3000cm² of surface area times thickness of accumulated rubber ,say 4mm times specific weight of rubber maybe 1,35 g/cm³ is :1.6Kg added ballast...

maybe the specific weight of the marbles is bigger due to stones embedded ,on the other hand the car will collect only marbles on the inside third with the camber and the need to drive slow to avoid to shed the marbles instantly...
So yes you can possibly add 1Kg of weight doing this funny stuff.It does not cost anything and is good for piece of mind .who would want to get kicked out not having done it...If you can accumulate 3kgs ?who knows.
The teams do not hesitate to rob the drivers of a few litres of fuel and risk having to short shift later in the race and losing positions so I bet they call it VERY close on minimum weight as well...