McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[ell66]

I still believe the red bull is the superior car, i believe they had a faster race car in suzuka but for some reason they ate there tyres a bit fast and got there strategy wrong.

As for mclaren, youve seen this boost in qually because of the more powerfull DRS the race pace wont be effected, just an improvment in qually which we've clearly seen.

[raymondu999]

Ell I think no one can disagree that in the Suzuka race the rbr was faster. Not by much, a tenth, or 2 at most, but it was there. But the rear degradation they were experiencing probably meant that over a stint, no matter how the tyres were handled, they would have been slower. In the race though; over a lap, the RBR was quicker.

Smikle- Myurr's point was that on that day in history the McLaren wasn't performing to it's full capacity because of understeer; and because the McLaren wasn't graining rears; the understeer didn't mean it protected rears; it just meant it grained fronts. Myurr is just saying that the McLaren was better than Korea showed it to be. At no point was Vettel anywhere in the lines; so if you somehow read it there your mind put it there

[ringo]

The mclaren wasn't better than it showed.
In the begining of the race it was quite obvious.
I don't think the wing was full of marbles in the first set of laps. And you could still see the strenght of the bulls in the second sector.

The Mp4 26 is still second best by a noticeable margin. It's neither the best car to drive over a race distance or the best car to qualify with.

[raymondu999]

It was very good at the start ringo - Seb could only pull away by 1 or 2 tenths a lap from Lewis. And that thing is a traction monster...

[ledzep4pm]

When you look at the relative performances. You can see lewis was under steering massively through the final long right-hander, this is why Webber had such a run on him down the pit straight. As soon as they got into the major traction zone on the run up to turn 3 the McLaren clearly has better mechanical grip.

[raymondu999]

Yes the McLaren this year has had fantastic braking and traction from slow corners; and it's not normal for it to understeer. The nose is arguably the strongest one around. The nose looked absolutely mighty on the Korea pole lap; and even everywhere else there's a tight hairpin, really

Welcome to the forums ledzep

[ledzep4pm]

That is definitely the trend this year. The marbles story just seems to have no evidence but would explain it perfectly. Poor set up would surely be evident in qualifying on low fuel, as it certainly was during the race on low fuel. I think it must be a mix of sub-optimal set up resulting in a very undesirable wear pattern of the tyres at the end of the stints, and front wing damage/ blockage. But I have to say it is very strange indeed.

[PlatinumZealot]

How do you know the setup was poor? The setup was great for qually!! Drivers were loving it! It's just the loss of DF caused the understeer. Nobody from Mclaren said anything bad about the setup like they did in Japan.

But believe what you want, I know you guys want to make Vettel's wins look difficult. But this is about the Mclaren Mp4-26.

[Pierce89]

I think you guys are just bandying around Mclaren's performance to fit an agenda. And it's so humorous, I have seen a multitude of threads all over the internet saying Mac was the faster car after that q3 performance only because one of the Bulls didn't pole. I saw it from Q1 that the Bulls had everything under control, they were "exploring" different ways of approaching racing - while Mclaren were desperate to get that pole for their 700th GP. The way Hamilton and Button were wringing the necks of those cars..

My technical instincts pointed to a compromise for the mclarens, and a conservative approach for the Bulls. And it turned out to be true.

And yes that was only Qualifying...

I genuinely observed that the Mclaren was lacking in the race. It doesn't matter if it was setup or some mysterious reason, they were not fast enough in Korea. What it is, is what it is. Potential doesn't count; the same car that was 2 seconds off in winter testing is the same one today, It's all about being fast when it matters, and the car was simply too slow to win in Korea. Doesn't matter how people twist it.

I even notice that RedBull actually had better tyre life than the Mclarens even though the Mclaren was the more under steering of the two. There is much for the Mclaren engineers to sort before India.

Likewise you appear to have an agenda and it's also quite humorous.

You seem unable to accept that whatever the reason the front end of the McLaren was uncharacteristically bad in Korea and they still came 2nd and 4th. You also rightly point out that the car was a little oversteery in Q3, but had chronic understeer in the race. Understeer also doesn't immediately equal better tyre life - all it does is change the stresses put into the front and rear tyres, so if you're always cooking the rears then you want understeer to stop you being able to put as much energy through them. McLaren weren't cooking the rears so the understeer wasn't helping them.

Be it damage, changing conditions, whatever, I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that this is where the car is at. They won in Suzuka (with very strong pace until Button had to save fuel), they got pole in Korea, and they still had the pace to finish second in the race. Ferrari were as quick as Red Bull once Alonso was free, so this wasn't some electrifying pace from Red Bull, it was a clear problem for McLaren. Also even if the loss of 10 points of downforce is only worth 0.3 seconds per lap, that may only be the difference in ultimate pace. The difference in normal laptime when having to conserve tyres over a stint with a badly imbalanced car may well be 1 second or more.

McLaren have very clearly taken a step forward in the last two race weekends, even if they still haven't had a clear race in which to show the potential. Potential counts for far more than you claim - the championship is over for this year, but potential will be carried over into next years cars. I still believe that McLaren are in a relatively good place from which to build a championship challenge next year. It's never going to be easy but hopefully they'll be able to give their drivers a chance to fight for it.

I hate to spoil the party and be a realist. But, if you you use logic and compare Japan and Korea to the rest of the races, then it seems more like Suzuka's blend of corners(not just speed, but radius, length/degrees turned, camber etc.) happened to suit the 26 and that race was the anomoly not Korea. It looks to me like rather than a specific problem in Korea, Mclaren just performed better than usual in Suzuka. While my order of team preference is Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull, unfortunately the order of relative performance is CLEARLY just the opposite.

[Pierce89]

How do you know the setup was poor? The setup was great for qually!! Drivers were loving it! It's just the loss of DF caused the understeer. Nobody from Mclaren said anything bad about the setup like they did in Japan.

But believe what you want, I know you guys want to make Vettel's wins look difficult. But this is about the Mclaren Mp4-26.

The marble's made the car slow?C'mon!I thought you had converted out of blindly following Mclaren BS and joined the Red Bull bandwagon and then you promote this crazy sob story from Macca.

[Vegetabill]

I seem to remember Lewis asking for more front wing before his first stop. Maybe this contributed to his oversteer later in the race

[Owen.C93]

I seem to remember Lewis asking for more front wing before his first stop. Maybe this contributed to his oversteer later in the race

He had understeer the whole race due to a clogged up front wing. Hence why he wanted it adjusted at the stop.

[Vegetabill]

maybe it unclogged itself? Or a mechanic did at one of the stops

[volarchico]

No, like Owen said...Lewis complained the entire race of understeer. Asked for more wing, set all his available options to try to eliminate it (see his post race interview in the Korea thread).

[raymondu999]

How do you know the setup was poor? The setup was great for qually!! Drivers were loving it! It's just the loss of DF caused the understeer. Nobody from Mclaren said anything bad about the setup like they did in Japan.

But believe what you want, I know you guys want to make Vettel's wins look difficult. But this is about the Mclaren Mp4-26.

You're misunderstanding. I'm saying Vettel's win SHOULD HAVE BEEN more difficult. But Vettel's win was made EASIER; BECAUSE the MP4-26 had the front downforce issue. HAD the McLaren NOT had that handling issue; then Vettel's win would have been more difficult than it was.

We are actually agreeing rather than disagreeing, but you don't realize it. We are both saying that in the race; the McLaren wasn't up to par