McLaren-Mercedes, 1995-97.

[xpensive]

When I consider four Mercedes threads being insufficient for this great manufacturer, I will with this post open a fifth,
where we can discuss and consider Mercedes' first three seasons in Formula One as engine supplier to McLaren.

In their first race together, 1995 Brazilian GP, Mika Häkkinen qualified 7th, 1.318 sec off Damon Hill's pole and finished fourth, but by the end of the season in Japan, he was third on the grid only 0.931 sec behind and finished second.

Other than that, McLaren's 1995 season was plagued by 15 retirements, many from engine failures, from 34 starts.

[beelsebob]

Oh god, please no, no more Mercedes bashing.

[Richard]

Don't worry, this thread will be puffing them up so we can be shown how far they have fallen with MGP.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Don't worry, this thread will be puffing them up so we can be shown how far they have fallen with MGP.

Eh?

[xpensive]

1996 was better, six podiums, 49 points and 4th in the WCC, but still ten retirements, many due to engine failures.

[Richard]

So the story is being released in stages? When do we get to hear about 97?

[munudeges]

Three wins in 1997, four other podiums, 63 points and a clear upturn in performance at the end of the season that was a precursor to 1998.

All-in-all there's a clear progression during the first three seasons and once they started winning races and championships they stayed in contention. Pretty successful I would say. Why they would give that up and dilute themselves is not immediately obvious.

[TzeiTzei]

I still remember the frustration when Hakkinen retired three times from the lead with engine problems. And the look on Norberts face at Nurburgring, when they had a commanding 1-2 lead and then both cars' engines blew up at the main straight. Simultaneously. =D>

In previous seasons though i think the lack of success was more down to the chassis.

[xpensive]

I still remember the frustration when Hakkinen retired three times from the lead with engine problems. And the look on Norberts face at Nurburgring, when they had a commanding 1-2 lead and then both cars' engines blew up at the main straight. Simultaneously. =D>
...

McLaren-Mercedes would have had many more than three wins in their 3rd season together with better engine reliability.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

From my collective memory I can recall mclarn producing a dud in 1995 and 1996.
So much so that Mansell quit when he realised the car wasnt up to it.

Mercedes cannot be compared to McLarens 3rd season yet, as I think they haven't even completed their 2nd season since their return.
And further to this how much of McLarens performance increase was due to the fact mercedes were providing blank cheques for them to go out and sign the likes of Adrian Newey?

I would say quite a considerable amount. Given that when Newey arrived a new front winng appeared and the mp4 12 suddenly looked competitive.

Hmmm

[Richard]

I thought Mansell struggled that season because he was too fat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Mans ... 5:_McLaren

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Richard, a telling excerpt from the link you kindly put up.

The season started dismally; Mansell couldn't fit into the car and wasn't able to race until Imola, where he ran in the midfield, a good way off the pace of his team-mate Mika Häkkinen. The Spanish Grand Prix saw a similar outcome but, outpaced and frustrated with his car's handling characteristics, he chose to retire after just two races with the team. Mansell cited the decision to retire as his not wanting to make up the numbers and with no hope of the MP4/10 being competitive.

[Just_a_fan]

In 1995 and 96 McLaren had terrible reliability issues. Not unsurprisingly, these were their first two years with Mercedes providing the engine (produced by Ilmor and a rather good, if slightly fragile, mule)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

JAF

Do you have a link with the facts? I seem to remember McLaren having several collisions that year(1995). 1996 Ilmor went on the smoke trail which led to the berylium engined monsters of 98 99.

[Just_a_fan]

Just used the wikipedia stuff which, with a bit of to-and-fro, allows one to see that they had reliability issues and accidents. But there were slightly more reliability issues than accidents.