McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

[PlatinumZealot]

Ah.. but I do not agree with the part about vettel's win being "more difficult." I would say less easy, because the Bulls had it in the bag even if Mclaren did not have the down-force problem.

[Lycoming]

It's just the loss of DF caused the understeer. Nobody from Mclaren said anything bad about the setup like they did in Japan.

hamilton himself said something along the lines of "I guess we didn't have the right setup today" though I suspect it was a bit more than setup, they have had the best front end this year for sure as others have already noted.

and I would disagree that suzuka was the anomaly. it doesn't fully explain the excellent pace they had in qualifying at korea. Don't forget they brought an upgrades package to suzuka

[feynman]

I guess it's just a pity Pirelli don't supply front wings to teams.

The McLaren pitwall were happy to let us spend half a week labouring under the illusion that Hamilton had punctured a rear in Japan, before the tyre company interjected with facts to put us straight.

Now we have that same pitwall insisting phantom chunks of rubber and unspecified damage to both front wings, on both cars, at the same time, and to the same detrimental effect on laptime ... apparently.

They took a best guess on dry setup, and landed a mile-off, good for a lap, voracious on fronts soon after.

[thatnoone]

has anyone notice if they do clean their front wings like RBR & Ferrari during
pit stops? I dont seem to recall swiping their front wing slots.

[Lycoming]

I dont think Ive ever actually SEEN any of them do that... I just occaisonally hear smedley telling them to check the rear wing... or do "the thing with the wing"

[myurr]

@feynman - article from James Allen that mentions at the end that McLaren haven't been the only team affected by the Pirelli rubber getting stuck in the front wing.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/r ... designers/

So it's entirely feasible.

[MIKEY_!]

If it was such a problem why didn't they just get a guy to run a small bit of metal pipe through the slot gaps in a pit stop? An Allen key perhaps.

[feynman]

@feynman - article from James Allen that mentions at the end that McLaren haven't been the only team affected by the Pirelli rubber getting stuck in the front wing.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/r ... designers/

So it's entirely feasible.

That footnote is somewhat ambiguous when it says "some teams", that could be one or many, the phrase that jumps out is the very specific use of "points of downforce" to describe the problem, which is the same phrasing that Whitmarsh is always keen to use, and used in the press release about Korea.

Since the start of the year, on some very marbly tracks indeed, we haven't heard any other team, at least publicly, offer this phenomenon up as a Monday morning explanation for unexpectedly weak race-pace.
Suddenly at one track, one without benefit of dry running, both cars in one team have full flap-adjust, full cockpit controls adjust, lock to lock understeer, and instead of setup, we are sent looking for not-photographed chunks of rubber.
For this to have occurred so very early in the race, when by definition marbles would be at minimum, seems especially unfortunate.

I am not saying it couldn't happen, of course it could, it makes all sorts of sense, but going on the probabilities of everything we have thus far seen this year, for now, just seems like a stretch.
In this case, I'd be happy to wait for an independent repeat performance on another raceday before fully embracing the concept as legitimate.

[MIKEY_!]

And why don't thew rest of the field complain of this

Yes of course it could happen but no one else makes a big deal of it. For it to be a credible problem other teams must start using this excuse.

[raymondu999]

Actually - would it not be possible that perhaps McLaren's slot design is very specific in that it is the only one with a geometry that is severely affected by the marbles? When was the last time they upgraded a front wing? Maybe this was a problem they introduced then. Just a random thought

[MIKEY_!]

possibly, although the slot gaps are all the same size so it couldn't cause that much difference I'd have thought.

[raymondu999]

same size between what? Old and new front wings? Or between teams? Is the size mandated?

[myurr]

@feynman - article from James Allen that mentions at the end that McLaren haven't been the only team affected by the Pirelli rubber getting stuck in the front wing.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/r ... designers/

So it's entirely feasible.

That footnote is somewhat ambiguous when it says "some teams", that could be one or many, the phrase that jumps out is the very specific use of "points of downforce" to describe the problem, which is the same phrasing that Whitmarsh is always keen to use, and used in the press release about Korea.

Since the start of the year, on some very marbly tracks indeed, we haven't heard any other team, at least publicly, offer this phenomenon up as a Monday morning explanation for unexpectedly weak race-pace.
Suddenly at one track, one without benefit of dry running, both cars in one team have full flap-adjust, full cockpit controls adjust, lock to lock understeer, and instead of setup, we are sent looking for not-photographed chunks of rubber.
For this to have occurred so very early in the race, when by definition marbles would be at minimum, seems especially unfortunate.

I am not saying it couldn't happen, of course it could, it makes all sorts of sense, but going on the probabilities of everything we have thus far seen this year, for now, just seems like a stretch.
In this case, I'd be happy to wait for an independent repeat performance on another raceday before fully embracing the concept as legitimate.

'Some teams' is plural, so more than one.

In McLaren's case what is more likely - the team got their sums so badly wrong, in that they had massively more rear grip than front grip especially in fast corners that are aero dominated, that they were unable to dial out the problem by cranking on more front wing on the car; or that there was an external influence affecting the front end downforce of that car.

The McLaren's number one aero strength all year has been it's front end downforce, an area where it has been the best in the field. Now suddenly they can't get enough on the car? That either has to be they had the wrong components on the car or damage / marbles.

[MIKEY_!]

same size between what? Old and new front wings? Or between teams? Is the size mandated?

Far as I know there is a minimum size for the slot gaps.

[Mandrake]

RE the race in Korea:

The main difference between Qualy and Race is the fuel load. More than 100kgs make a huge difference in Handling. Fuel weight is not handling neutral.

That is why MGP have problems in the race, either being competitive in the beginning, or in the end.

If McLaren sacrificed Long running for low fuel runs it's perfectly understandable that the car performs weirdly in the race. Adding front wing at the stop has then increased aero on the front which in turn made the handling worse the more fuel was burned.