Ferrari 150° Italia

[ell66]

Yes i agree!

MOre pics:







Do you see a little hole in top left corner! Interesting!

those holes are to adjust the flap of the wing

Read what he said, the top left, you can see theres a small hole/ slot, nothing todo with wing adjustments.

[scarbs]

The smalll slot was on the wing when it made its debut. Its nothing new and unlikely to be related an f-duct

[cossie]

Scarbs I really do not see how Ferrari is going to get away with this. #1 they are about as subtle as a Preist giving candy to an Alter boy there is so much flutter. I can see it causing structural failures in the chassis or suspension. That's alot of energy that is being produced by the flutter, and that energy is being collected somewhere in the chassis or suspension where it was not desighned for. . and there are safety issues, with that much flutteer it could cause structural failure of the wing, then breaking and folding underneath the chassis and front tires

[PhillipM]

Scarbs I really do not see how Ferrari is going to get away with this. #1 they are about as subtle as a Preist giving candy to an Alter boy there is so much flutter. I can see it causing structural failures in the chassis or suspension. That's alot of energy that is being produced by the flutter, and that energy is being collected somewhere in the chassis or suspension where it was not desighned for. . and there are safety issues, with that much flutteer it could cause structural failure of the wing, then breaking and folding underneath the chassis and front tires

Then the FIA should have clamped down on it when they were asked to. They knew what it would lead to.

[ringo]

Scarbs I really do not see how Ferrari is going to get away with this. #1 they are about as subtle as a Preist giving candy to an Alter boy there is so much flutter. I can see it causing structural failures in the chassis or suspension. That's alot of energy that is being produced by the flutter, and that energy is being collected somewhere in the chassis or suspension where it was not desighned for. . and there are safety issues, with that much flutteer it could cause structural failure of the wing, then breaking and folding underneath the chassis and front tires

It's not going to affect the structure of the car much. The frequency is too low.
I don't really see what benefit the flutter has though.
It only makes the car have a fluctuating downforce level. Unpredictability should negatively affect driver confidence.

I think they are trying to get the wing to stay down. However it's coming too close to the ground.It comes so close that the flow stagnates then stalls and the wing springs back up after losing the suction underneath.

a front wing F duct could prevent boundary layer stalling, or they could be less greedy for ground effect by strengthening the wing and prevent it from dipping too low.
Another solution is to raise the wing where it meets the end plate or do what mclaren are doing with having the flow notches along the span.

Having the downforce at maximum without going over the limit, in terms of boundary layer, should stabilize things.

[cossie]

the energy is being collected somewhere where it not designed for, and the amount of energy and ossolation something is going to fail, the wing, suspension who knows , I don't think Ferrari knows where.

[MIKEY_!]

Massa said the vibrations were not an issue for him.

[aleks_ader]

The smalll slot was on the wing when it made its debut. Its nothing new and unlikely to be related an f-duct

Who said that is connected with f-duct! Is just interesting why is there a little hole?

[timbo]

Massa is running old wing, Alonso — new.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Massa is running old wing, Alonso — new.

They said they have no idea what is the problem with the wing. The fact ALO started with the wing first before MAS, and now only Fernando will use the new wing in the race makes me think it is ALO who is doing most of the new 2012 parts testing.

[Pierce89]

Scarbs I really do not see how Ferrari is going to get away with this. #1 they are about as subtle as a Preist giving candy to an Alter boy there is so much flutter. I can see it causing structural failures in the chassis or suspension. That's alot of energy that is being produced by the flutter, and that energy is being collected somewhere in the chassis or suspension where it was not desighned for. . and there are safety issues, with that much flutteer it could cause structural failure of the wing, then breaking and folding underneath the chassis and front tires

It's not going to affect the structure of the car much. The frequency is too low.
I don't really see what benefit the flutter has though.
It only makes the car have a fluctuating downforce level. Unpredictability should negatively affect driver confidence.

I think they are trying to get the wing to stay down. However it's coming too close to the ground.It comes so close that the flow stagnates then stalls and the wing springs back up after losing the suction underneath.

a front wing F duct could prevent boundary layer stalling, or they could be less greedy for ground effect by strengthening the wing and prevent it from dipping too low.
Another solution is to raise the wing where it meets the end plate or do what mclaren are doing with having the flow notches along the span.

Having the downforce at maximum without going over the limit, in terms of boundary layer, should stabilize things.

I don't think this was traditional aero porpoising. I don't think the wing was close enough to suffer a thick enough boundary layer to cause severe flow seperations. I think a bump bounced an unusually flexible wing to an extremely unusual position thus causing the wing to see a very unusual flow which probably bent it more and the rebound combined with aero forces started all the strange machinations we saw from the wing.

[Reca]

Here's the 150 Italia onboard lap of Alonso at the Indian GP.

http://www.formula1.com/video/onboard/

Speed data extracted from the engine noise in that video and comparison with Vettel's pole:


And lateral acceleration:



obtained applying Alonso's speed to a plausible racing line, computed by minimizing an opportune fitness function of various parameters, between track boundaries.

Lacking satellite image, best I could do was to use official's map as centerline, adding a constant width; track being rather wide I used 14m. Real tracks don't have constant width typically, and India's in particular, in some areas it looked even wider than that, which affects the estimate of radius thus of lateral acceleration (last corner an obvious candidate for that, 3g @ 100km/h is clearly too much), anyway, that's not meant to be 100% accurate, it's just a first order approximation to get an idea, so take it for what it is, considering the limitations.

[timbo]

Great job! It seems like most of the time is lost in a single corner. Are you sure? Maybe there was wheelspin that obscured data somewhat?
Anyway, a brilliant contribution =D>

[Reca]

Well, first of all, thank you.

Then, it's an estimate so we obviously can't expect it to be 100% accurate, many factors can influence it and add errors, wheelspin being just one of them.

That said, the trend of the time gap matches what you can see from available sector times:

SV : 41.277 - 22.226 (63.503) – 20.675 (84.178)
FA : 41.097 - 22.371 (63.468) – 20.944 (84.412)

If now you look at my graph Alonso is actually a bit behind already at S2, by slightly less than a tenth, while according to best sectors he should be ahead by 0.035s; thing is, while in Q3 Vettel's set an "ideal" lap putting together his best sectors, Alonso didn't, his fastest lap is actually about a tenth slower than ideal would have been, which rather nicely explains the discrepancy of my data (almost too good to be true actually...)

In particular the biggest speed difference visible (there are differences in other corners too but in the poor resolution of that graph you can't see it), at entrance of the long right hander, also corresponds to a noticeable difference in gear's selection, with Alonso downshifting to 4th to then pass in 5th few seconds later, while Vettel stays in 5th.
I don't know if Alonso was always entering in that gear or maybe was forced to by a mistake in that lap only, as I've no other laps to analyze, I can only guess that possibly the speed in that corner was higher when he set his best sector time, no way to confirm though.

[timbo]

I don't know if Alonso was always entering in that gear or maybe was forced to by a mistake in that lap only, as I've no other laps to analyze, I can only guess that possibly the speed in that corner was higher when he set his best sector time, no way to confirm though.

Yeah, looks like a mistake on the graph.