Team: Luis Pérez-Sala (TP), Jean Claude Martens (CD), Stephane Chosse (HA), Richard Pegram (CM) Drivers: Narain Karthikeyan (22), Pedro De La Rosa (23), Dani Clos (test), Vitantonio Liuzzi (test)
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
I doubt it. Virgin and HRT are the teams having the least resources. The teams now in front of them have more resources, thus can simply do more, therefore will outpace them. The only way they can reach Q2 on a regular basis is by having 3 teams coming with such crappy designs that these will be the backmarkers.
Apart from that, it is always these great stories with them, but never come close to anything true. For example, where is the main sponsor that they would have? or where is the brand new car? It was in that view already a wonder they made the Australia grid.
It is always the same stories with this team, wow we come with something really great and when you guys will see it only 10% of it is true. People tend to forget the team got barely any sponsorship(TATA is even by Karthikeyan) and exchanged hands twice already in not even 2 full years! To add a topping to that, the previous owner and current owner are both, in my eyes, a bit lackluster owners.
I cannot seem to believe they will even be a row up the field next year.
Are we serious??? How was the car in Australia??? How was the car in the last 3 races??? Hrt did the greattest development that ive seen in my life, you say that they tell great stoies, ok man i dont know if you are talking about hrt because they onle promised three things. 1. Go to spain, they did valencia. 2 hispanicized the team, they did Dani Clos and 3 to Make a faster car for 2012 they are doing it, Eg. They got KERS. So are u serius and believing your stories??
Yes I am serious. Apart from that, now you name 3 messages which luckily seem to be true. Also point 3 is quite funny, sure a team wants to make a slower car for next year.
Oh, and since HRT is such a great, and believable team. I can remember them saying the F111 would be ready for the first test, and they barely made it to Australia, that isnt a 2 week delay, that is a delay of nearly 3 months, can you explain that to me?
Oh and this, since Singapore 2010 they have been letting out press releases stating they will release a new main sponsor, but where is that main sponsor? Their car is completely empty apart from a few small sponsors and TATA which is only there because of Karthikeyan.
And also, for 2011 they would come with a brand new car, yet they retained the full tub and other parts.
And they state they come with a brand new tub in 2012, but these were the same guys who requested a rule change for 2012 so they could retain the same tub.
What I even find more interesting is how you can already know they are making a faster car for 2012, who states it indeed will be faster?
Quite ironic by the way, you state to me that I am not serious, yet you recall 'promises' which you cannot correct yet or they are bloody obvious, also your username says enough about the quality of the post.
To me HRT is a lackluster racing team, first owned by Campos, a racing lover who sold it before 2010 to Cabarante, an person who had to visit court for fraud and what not, quite a guy to trust uhh? Now he sold it to another group where barely anyone seems to know anything about, not quite the way you want it.
Oh and another, I do not understand why you got such an high hat about HRT, if Bahrain wasnt canceled they wouldnt be on the grid right now.
And to just answer the question; In Australia the car was last, and the last 3 races the car was also last. That they 'improved' so much is rather by the lack of improvement from Virgin than the huge gains HRT made. They are, together with Virgin still dead last, and I do not see any reason for it to change next year. So they got the Williams KERS, current year shows us the system barely works most of the time, wow a great deal.
Just take a look to the other side, Virgin, their main concurrent, has full support by McLaren, consisting of a gearbox, if I'm correct their KERS package and a headcount of 120 people transferring from McLaren to Virgin. Just to compare the two teams to each other;
Virgin HRT
Secure position Insecure
260 Headcount 160 Headcount
Enough resources Barely enough resources
Then I havent even named the ability of Virgin of McLarens technical support. The one who think HRT will be in Q2 next year on a regular basis are simply not thinking hard enough. Every team in front of them has more resources then HRT and every team will also improve their car and over the season can develop it more. I cannot see any reason why HRT should even make it of the back of the grid
I'm afraid your post above illustrates the phonomenon of conflation. Inaccurate information is taken as fact and then exaggerated. Virgin are not using Mclaren transmission. They are stuck in a time warp of Xtrac internals with their own bespoke casing. In addition they will be the only team in 2012 not running KERS.
With regards to McLaren support, I am aware that they are utilising manpower and simulation software from Woking but under the present rules you cannot transfer chassis IP from one team to another.
Geoff Willis stated there was no more than a 10% transfer of components from the 2010 car to the 2011 car. You will appreciate that the tub has little affect on overall aero map and teams will only design a new tub if there is a major rule change. They will however build new tubs for each new season. I am not aware that HRT requested a rule change to maintain their present tub as they completed the initial design for the 2012 challenger in September.
I am pretty sure for next year Virgin gets to make use of the McLaren transmission, as well as the headcount and acces to the technology of McLaren.
And teams not changing the tub, take a look at it, the Red Bull tub has its bulges changed, the McLaren tub indeed got little difference, the Ferrari tub changed a lot as well as the LRGP's tub. The Toro Rosso tub isnt the same either as well as the Mercedes tub. Teams design new tubs every year, with different strength and properties. As wel as taking out weight. The F111 reuses the same tub as from the F110, where they promised an all new car with new tub to be available for the first 2011 test. This became an new car around the 2010 tub which was ready just in time for Australia.
This discussion is turning into a circular argument. If you're basing your assertions on speculation posted on this forum I'm willing to make a small bet for charity that Marussia will not be using McLaren Transmission next year.
Yes indeed the Grandee teams will incorporate a new tub design into their new cars, but smaller teams will use an existing mould and adjust it to meet any new impact tests.
Last edited by Petroltorque on 20 Nov 2011, 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
As the first new poster in this thread, both of you are correct.
Hispania will use a new tub with the Cosworth CA2012 powerplant with the Williams KERS and transmission.
Virgin will be using a new tub with rumored McLaren eske influences, the same CA2012 power as Hispania and the Xtrac 1044 gearbox as they currently use and no KERS. However they will be using McLaren technicians to run their gearboxes for at least one year before switching.
Virgin are to have a personell base of arround 265 next year, however Hispania have kept a couple of guys back in Europe whilst the fly-aways are on to get their new Valencia base suited and booted, as they are transferring from Cologne to Valencia in December. They are moving to an old Americas Cup factory just literally meters from the race track.
Hispania will heep their base in Brackley for useage of the Mercedes #2 tunnel;, but their design office and race facility that is in one of Kolles factories will move to Valencia under one roof.
I doubt that Hispania will get both cars out of Q1 for a while, however id expect to see at least 1 car pop out of Q1 into Q2 at least once next year, probably in the second half of the year.
Hispania will have the bare minimum of resource compaired to Virgin or Caterham next year, but id expect to see the team take advantage of a technichal alliance next year with someone. Reason being, the top teams are seeing positive effects having al alliance with a smaller one, McLaren-Marussia/McLaren-Force India and Red Bull-Caterham/Red Bull-Toro Rosso are two teams that have an alliance, Ferrari have Sauber, Williams have Caterham and Hispana, Mercedes have Force India and Hispania as well. Id expect to hear of some new tie-up with Hispania next year, sometime.
Hispania have improved, but they havnt really. They have improved as they are now consistantly on the track, but havnt consistantly improved their posistion in race conditions.
This team has the largest opertunity for 2012, and the largest window to improve, lets give it time to see if they do!!
We all know HRT and Virgin have not been good enough this year.
As I have mentioned in another forum, if the F112 is doing what the Team Lotus car is doing this year and challenging to be in Q2 then that is process.
ESP - with HRT moving to Valencia, will they get up to the 250/265 members of staff like Caterham and Marussia?
Marussia will not be using KERS and plus Caterham are using Red Bull KERS, that hasn't always worked has it?
I can see HRT having a alliance with Lotus or Ferrari in the future.
cbbcisace wrote:Is Wesley123 a Virgin Racing team member?
Nah
We all know HRT and Virgin have not been good enough this year.
Fact
As I have mentioned in another forum, if the F112 is doing what the Team Lotus car is doing this year and challenging to be in Q2 then that is process.
The only problem that comes to play is that Team Lotus is having 2 teams behind them, when the F113 is done they are the last of the breed doing so thus will still be behind.
I can see HRT having a alliance with Lotus or Ferrari in the future.
Not in the near future, at least let them have a secure position, and lets behonest compared to even Virgin they are away from that.
Does hrt have any base in Italy??
About the employers i think that hrt should have 200-220, remember that no all the team has the same budget and i think that now hrt its fine with the alliance of Williams and Mercedes and we dont need anyone else help, maybe we should get a better engine like, Renault or Mercedes but should be good idea get PURE for 2014 as well, but right now i think that the pieces are on the puzzle for the future.
