McLaren with Honda engines in 2014

[beelsebob]

What you are saying is Microsoft could do what Intel does.

No, what I am saying is that Apple are very well positioned to enter that market, because they have experience of designing very low level software, and designing and fabbing chips – even if not quite as powerful ones.

Aside – even that analogy is a bit of a stretch, given that computer chips are way more complex engineering tasks than engines.

[kalinka]

+1 , and a decent chip factory with clean rooms costs more than a billion $. And that's just the factory, development cost is significant too.
I'm sure McLaren has almost all the equipment they need for building a new engine, but as others mentioned, only the dev. costs are well above what they could afford.
I hope that Honda could enter the competition in 2014 with McL. It's not impossible to make a good engine in first year (especially that it would be first year for others too ).

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 , and a decent chip factory with clean rooms costs more than a billion $. And that's just the factory, development cost is significant too.
I'm sure McLaren has almost all the equipment they need for building a new engine, but as others mentioned, only the dev. costs are well above what they could afford.
I hope that Honda could enter the competition in 2014 with McL. It's not impossible to make a good engine in first year (especially that it would be first year for others too ).

They have all the equipment needed to build an engine?

Why do they have a bunch of engineers toing and froing from Brixworth? In this day and age they can download all the information required onto a decent lap top.
They most certainly do not currently have the equipment needed to build their own engines in my opinion, they do not even have that capability for their road cars outsourcing it to Ricardo.

[Giblet]

They don't just hand the plans to Ricardo and say 'do your best'.

If they decide to build their own F1 engine, it is simply a matter of logistics. Nothing more. Build, wrangle and tool.

Everyone knows the way Mclaren works. They do stuff big. They will only make their own engines if they can do it right and devastatingly so.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And that is why they cannot and will not be building engines for the next few years.

Im wondering wether Ferrari without FIAT could justify spending 200 million, plus engine development, let alone Mclaren. McLaren engines are a pipe dream regardless of what can be bought or how they operate.

[beelsebob]

And that is why they cannot and will not be building engines for the next few years.

Im wondering wether Ferrari without FIAT could justify spending 200 million, plus engine development, let alone Mclaren. McLaren engines are a pipe dream regardless of what can be bought or how they operate.

And yet, they were entirely capable of pooping out a brand new super car engine that's a world beater. I realise that there's a big gap between a super car engine and an F1 engine... But again, if there's any group of people in the world that can do this kind of thing, it's McLaren.

[kalinka]

They most certainly do not currently have the equipment needed to build their own engines in my opinion, they do not even have that capability for their road cars outsourcing it to Ricardo

I didn't think (and say ), that they're capable of producing high quality engines every day. I just say I'm convinced they had all the equipment and they are already doing some research probably. That's not equal to producing even a limited number of comercial engines like Ricardo does. For that you need an established factory, and not some research center, even if the number of produced engines is very low. Anyway I admit it's just a guess or say gut feeling nothing more.

[Pierce89]

And that is why they cannot and will not be building engines for the next few years.

Im wondering wether Ferrari without FIAT could justify spending 200 million, plus engine development, let alone Mclaren. McLaren engines are a pipe dream regardless of what can be bought or how they operate.

And yet, they were entirely capable of pooping out a brand new super car engine that's a world beater. I realise that there's a big gap between a super car engine and an F1 engine... But again, if there's any group of people in the world that can do this kind of thing, it's McLaren.

they didn't pop out a brand new supercar engine. Ricardo did.

[Pierce89]

+1 , and a decent chip factory with clean rooms costs more than a billion $. And that's just the factory, development cost is significant too.
I'm sure McLaren has almost all the equipment they need for building a new engine, but as others mentioned, only the dev. costs are well above what they could afford.
I hope that Honda could enter the competition in 2014 with McL. It's not impossible to make a good engine in first year (especially that it would be first year for others too ).

F1 engine manufacture also requires a clean room. Maybe not to Intel standards, but they have a VERY CONTROLLED environment for enginee builds. Also I don't believe Mclaren necessarily has all the required engine development systems to build F1 standard engines. It would take huge investment in equipment and manpower.

[beelsebob]

+1 , and a decent chip factory with clean rooms costs more than a billion $. And that's just the factory, development cost is significant too.
I'm sure McLaren has almost all the equipment they need for building a new engine, but as others mentioned, only the dev. costs are well above what they could afford.
I hope that Honda could enter the competition in 2014 with McL. It's not impossible to make a good engine in first year (especially that it would be first year for others too ).

F1 engine manufacture also requires a clean room. Maybe not to Intel standards, but they have a VERY CONTROLLED environment for enginee builds. Also I don't believe Mclaren necessarily has all the required engine development systems to build F1 standard engines. It would take huge investment in equipment and manpower.

The issue for intel is not the clean room – it's the lithography kit. A good clean room does not cost billions, being able to create transistors 0.000000022m across does.

The basic point being – chip design involves billions of parts, each of which must be manufactured to nanometer tolerances. Doing this is a lot more complex and expensive than building engines, even the most complex and precision engineered on the planet.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

they didn't pop out a brand new supercar engine. Ricardo did.

+1

[Pierce89]

+1 , and a decent chip factory with clean rooms costs more than a billion $. And that's just the factory, development cost is significant too.
I'm sure McLaren has almost all the equipment they need for building a new engine, but as others mentioned, only the dev. costs are well above what they could afford.
I hope that Honda could enter the competition in 2014 with McL. It's not impossible to make a good engine in first year (especially that it would be first year for others too ).

F1 engine manufacture also requires a clean room. Maybe not to Intel standards, but they have a VERY CONTROLLED environment for enginee builds. Also I don't believe Mclaren necessarily has all the required engine development systems to build F1 standard engines. It would take huge investment in equipment and manpower.

The issue for intel is not the clean room – it's the lithography kit. A good clean room does not cost billions, being able to create transistors 0.000000022m across does.

The basic point being – chip design involves billions of parts, each of which must be manufactured to nanometer tolerances. Doing this is a lot more complex and expensive than building engines, even the most complex and precision engineered on the planet.

I'm not disagreeing with that, just making the point that Mclaren would stil require a LOT of investment to start an engine program. Noone ever said engines were more complicated than chips. Chips only came about because of the Micrsoft and Intel analogy. Which I agree with. Mclaren builds chassis' it's what they do well. Trying to build engines may detract from that.

[Pierce89]

Mclaren would do well to stay with the strongest engine manufacturer in the sport.

[kalinka]

I know engine manufacturing requires a clean room too but we're just talking here about very different scales >

"Fab 42 is the crown jewel of the most ambitious construction push in a decade for the world’s No. 1 chipmaker. In the next few years, it will pour more than $10 billion into constructing the 1 million-square-foot Fab 42, another manufacturing plant in Hillsboro, Ore., and upgrades to facilities in Arizona, Oregon and New Mexico."

Sorry for off topic, I just want you to imagine the scale-difference (in investment too ).

[Pierce89]

I know engine manufacturing requires a clean room too but we're just talking here about very different scales >

"Fab 42 is the crown jewel of the most ambitious construction push in a decade for the world’s No. 1 chipmaker. In the next few years, it will pour more than $10 billion into constructing the 1 million-square-foot Fab 42, another manufacturing plant in Hillsboro, Ore., and upgrades to facilities in Arizona, Oregon and New Mexico."

Sorry for off topic, I just want you to imagine the scale-difference (in investment too ).

Yes we are talking different scales, but that doesn't negate the fact to have their own engines,
Mclaren would have to spend at least 100 million to get to the same place they are now. I don't see any reason for Mclaren to build f1 engines, they'll never sell enough 200,000 dollar road cars for the marketing to pay for it. Why blow a hundred mill or so to be in the same place?

Furthermore, they'll never be a BETTER engine manufacturer than Mercedes, so WHY?