FOTA is dead

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

Most of team are agree with Ferrari... At Singapore, only Red Bull refuse to sign an agreement while all the team sign this agreement. I'm sorry but it's Red Bull who doesn't want RRA.

I'm sure Red Bull spent more than RRA require, it's seems they are very clever and they found some loophole to spent more than any other teams. Mercedes with Brawn during this season have already point this problem. And i think it's why Ferrari leave FOTA.

[Richard]

Ferarri back to the old ways of breaking FOTA Bernie in return for special treatment, in this the RRA?

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

And finally, HRT was in the truth when they said FOTA was just made for the bigger teams.

[WhiteBlue]

Most of team are agree with Ferrari... At Singapore, only Red Bull refuse to sign an agreement while all the team sign this agreement. I'm sorry but it's Red Bull who doesn't want RRA.

Do you have reliable sources for your opinion? It sounds very biased and does not take the different interests of various teams into account. I think the situation isn't simply Ferrari or Red Bull being right or wrong. It is simply a clash of different particular agendas that is coming to a head now. The underlying problems have always been there. They go back to the manufacturer vs constructor power struggle of the first concord.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Seriously, how can red bill expect Ferrari to have the same budget as theirs when Ferrari have to design and build their own engines?

Are you sure that engine costs are wihtin RRA? Otherwise Mercedes should complain too.
Maybe there is a chassis cost restriction agreement and an engine cost restriction agreement?

Horner stated in Oz I think, that Mercedes and Ferrari had a bigger budget than Red Bull.
Well I dont know where Mr horner got the facts from but Mercedes have disclosed the info that they spent around 100 million in 2010, the figure is roughly the same this year up to the point where Mercedes went on their recruitment drive to match staffing at RB etc.

The only way Mercedes spend more than Red Bull is if you include engine costs. So if he is using this as a barometer of spend surely the Renault cost of development(circa 100 million in 2010) has to be included in RB's budget.
Its cat and mouse at the moment and I think the smoke emanating from Red Bull overspending is now probably correct given that the other 3 big teams want clearer clarification.

The fact of the matter is Red Bull have always been at logger heads with an RRA restriction. They seem to leave meetings at a whim, and have done so at least twice this year. Ferrari are capable of matching them in a spen fight which is why they have followed Red Bull. But I would bet my bottom dollar had Red Bull agreed or come to some sort of agreement we would not be having Ferrari going alone.
It is not in their interests to spend 280 million dollars a year on F1 anymore.

Im not at all surprised by Red Bulls posturing.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ whiteblue

it was widely reported on the BBC and they also had an interview with Horner, where he stated that yes it was Red Bull who cut the meeting short and it was due to concerns of theirs regarding how the RRA is policed and wether information can be garnered through these checks.

Seems Red Bull are wary of trade secrets being leaked but the rest are ok with it.
Its all bollocks if you dont mind me saying.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

@white blue

I'm agree with you on this one, it's a political battle. Each team want to have a gain. Domenicali said after Silverstone that certains team ( RBR.. ? ) should more think about the sport, and now that Ferrari are doomed on track, he didn't want to let RBR have an advantage.

But when i read that the big team will meet each other, i'm afraid for the rest of the grid.

Next week will be interesting, and i think Bernie have a big smile on his face.

[bill shoe]

My take is that-

Red Bull left due to RRA. Leaving FOTA prevents any further investigation into 2010-11 violations, and clears the way for higher spending in the future. Red Bull can spend more than any other team in history, and don't want to give up this competitive advantage.

Ferrari left because it's time to negotiate the next Concord Agreement and they want their usual outrageous private deal.

Sad day for the sport of F1. FOTA accomplished much by standing together 2 or 3 years ago.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

My take is that-

Red Bull left due to RRA. Leaving FOTA prevents any further investigation into 2010-11 violations, and clears the way for higher spending in the future. Red Bull can spend more than any other team in history, and don't want to give up this competitive advantage.



Sad day for the sport of F1. FOTA accomplished much by standing together 2 or 3 years ago.

+1

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If there were any transgressions during the 2011 season Red Bull will still have to answer.

FOTA's latest statutes mean that teams must give a two-month notice period to leave the organisation, which means Red Bull Racing and Ferrari will officially depart the body by the start of February next year - providing they do not change their mind

[Just_a_fan]

Mclaren cant because they lost Mercedes money and have stretched themselves with building the 12C,

Don't agree with this, I'm afraid. Ron will have been very careful to keep the finances of McLaren Vodafone Mercedes and McLaren Automotive totally separate. The F1 team will not have been affected by the money being spent on the MP4-12C and the other forthcoming road cars.

People may not like the guy, but Ron is no idiot when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Just_a_fan]

I have to say that I think RedBull will look back at this in a year or two and wish they hadn't left. If they think they can win a spending and development war against Ferrari and McLaren then I think they'll find themselves mistaken. Given free rein, McLaren (and Ferrari too but maybe to a slightly lesser degree) will out-develop any team over the course of a season. One only has to look at how they have turned relatively poor cars in to races winners in the last two seasons with restrictions in place.

One thing McLaren have shown over the years is that they can turn a car and season around very quickly given the chance. And getting rid of the RRA will give them that chance.

The big two (McL and Fer) have been running RB close with one hand tied behind their back. Sure RB can come up with some clever stuff but the other two will figure it out and overtake them if they're not hampered by the RRA and testing bans.

And I, for one, look forward to it. Horner will not look nearly so smug...

Further, I can't help but feel that RedBull are behaving a bit like Ferrari did back in the "special relationship" days. They feel that they're a special case and perhaps a little untouchable because of their recent success. But every successful team has hard times too. And when they hit RB, as they certainly will, the other teams will be much less sympathetic now.

[i70q7m7ghw]

So basically, spending is once again going to spiral out of control. It's a shame, because the RRA was quite beneficial to the teams in a way, it was a way of helping them all make a profit. Not they will all most likely make a massive loss, you only have to look at the likes of Toyota & Honda to see what effect that has.

[timbo]

With testing still being tightly controlled, I wonder, where teams would spemd all that money? Would we see specialized packages for everu GP? And top engineers probably would be hugely beneficial from the situation.

[WhiteBlue]

There are a lot of erroneous assumptions being traded in this thread. The RRA still runs for several years and no team can ignore it and spend what they want. It is a legally binding document.

It is also false to think that Red Bull wants to outspend other teams. They simply want different restrictions compared to Ferrari. This is primarily a question of how the available resources will be structured to include the engine development work that is needed by the new V6 engines.

Further the actual termination for Red Bull and Ferrari will take two months to come into effect after they have served notice today. As both parties will try to come to a solution in the big four talks there is still a small chance that the issues will be settled.