FOTA is dead

[Shrieker]

It is also false to think that Red Bull wants to outspend other teams. They simply want different restrictions compared to Ferrari.

I love how you spin it

It's a well known fact that RB has the deepest of pockets thanks to Mateschitz. They were probably already overspending, you'd never have heard others moaning about it otherwise. I can't blame them though, if I have more financial power than the others, why not use it. In a capitalist sense, that's the surest way to win. Not good for the sport though, and I don't think they give a s**t.

[Just_a_fan]

It is also false to think that Red Bull wants to outspend other teams. They simply want different restrictions compared to Ferrari. This is primarily a question of how the available resources will be structured to include the engine development work that is needed by the new V6 engines.

Earlier you accused someone else of being biased. This reads the same way to be honest. That's not a dig, by the way, just an observation.

It isn't about RedBull against Ferrari as your post suggests. It's about RedBull against the rest of FOTA. Ferrari have decided that if RedBull are going to do their own thing - and that suggests they're going to ignore the RRA - then they may as well do so too.

[internetf1fan]

Mclaren do not have the budget they did back in 2009 internetf1fan.

They spent all the KERS development costs in 2009 anyway so 2010 wouldn't be that much more expensive to run KERS. As usual McLaren waste an advantage for nothing.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

There are a lot of erroneous assumptions being traded in this thread. The RRA still runs for several years and no team can ignore it and spend what they want. It is a legally binding document.

It is also false to think that Red Bull wants to outspend other teams. They simply want different restrictions compared to Ferrari. This is primarily a question of how the available resources will be structured to include the engine development work that is needed by the new V6 engines.

Further the actual termination for Red Bull and Ferrari will take two months to come into effect after they have served notice today. As both parties will try to come to a solution in the big four talks there is still a small chance that the issues will be settled.

So we can say :

Ferrari want :

-More money spent on the engine and mechanical part
-Less money on aero part

Red Bull :

-More money on aero part, because they are the best on aero side.
-Less money on engine part, simply because they didn't know how to build an engine

So two teams, with two different vision for this sport.

And once again you are right on the fact that all the teams have to respect RRA until 2017.

[hardingfv32]

How is the RRA enforced? I do not see it in the FIA regs.

I wonder if Ferrari's budget is what it use to be in this economy. How is Fiat doing in this economy?

Brian

[CHT]

So from the smoke of this fire, can we deduce red bull weren't prepared for transparency and refused to co operate? Ferrari not wanting the handicap therefore refused the restrictions too, fearing a red bull advantage?

Seriously, how can red bill expect Ferrari to have the same budget as theirs when Ferrari have to design and build their own engines?
Not happy that the gulf will now probably widen between red bull(and now probably Ferrari) compared to the rest.

Ferrari do not just build engine for F1, but also for their road cars, so there is really not much of manufacturing fixed overhead in that area, and since engine design has been frozen for so many years, there is really nothing much to design until at least 2014.

So I reckon what Ferrari is doing is to prepare themselves for 2014, as they know they will have to spend a lot of money to stay ahead of their competitors who are very strong with FI engines.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@CHT

Renault spent 100million on engines in 2010, in a frozen formula.

Ferrari road car engines is a seperate entity to that of its F1 arm.

[Pierce89]

It is also false to think that Red Bull wants to outspend other teams. They simply want different restrictions compared to Ferrari.

I love how you spin it

It's a well known fact that RB has the deepest of pockets thanks to Mateschitz. They were probably already overspending, you'd never have heard others moaning about it otherwise. I can't blame them though, if I have more financial power than the others, why not use it. In a capitalist sense, that's the surest way to win. Not good for the sport though, and I don't think they give a s**t.

WB just can't stand the fact that Ferrari isn't at fault. We all know his purpose in life is to make ridiculous rants at Ferrari.

I think RBR may have messed in their nest with this move.

[WhiteBlue]

How is the RRA enforced? I do not see it in the FIA regs.

The FiA is a signatory to the RRA. They decided to leave it to FOTA to self police it. If FOTA breaks down the FiA could step in and start to monitor the teams use of resources and money. I don't think they would do this unless a request will be made by some competitors. It is possible.

[timbo]

If FOTA breaks down the FiA could step in and start to monitor the teams use of resources and money.

Highlighted a keyword.

[bhall]

I freely admit that what I'm going to ask is immaterial to the discussion in this thread and is likely just plain dumb.

Can someone please rename this thread "FOTA is dead; long live FOTA"? I just think it'd be the coolest thread title on the forum.

(Yes, I know I'm ridiculous.)

[CHT]

Mclaren cant because they lost Mercedes money and have stretched themselves with building the 12C,

Don't agree with this, I'm afraid. Ron will have been very careful to keep the finances of McLaren Vodafone Mercedes and McLaren Automotive totally separate. The F1 team will not have been affected by the money being spent on the MP4-12C and the other forthcoming road cars.

People may not like the guy, but Ron is no idiot when it comes to this sort of thing.

Ron and Mclaren doesnt have the money to finance mclaren automotive and their road car expansion plan, thats why Ron needs to travel around the world go get investors to buy into the automotive division. Recently they just sold a stake to a Singapore billionaire investor Peter Lim.

Mclaren is the ultimate f1 marketing machine, not the richest I am afraid.

[CHT]

@CHT

Renault spent 100million on engines in 2010, in a frozen formula.

Ferrari road car engines is a seperate entity to that of its F1 arm.

Do you mean Renault spend 100million on their road car engine or F1 engine? sources please.

[raymondu999]

The RRA is a contract independent of FOTA membership no? I read somewhere that it's a contract independent of membership that holds until 2017; in which case teams would still not be allowed to spend all willy nilly

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ CHT

John Reed spoke with Jean Francois Caubet, who manages Renault’s F1 engine programme, and he spelled out the amount Renault used to spend on the sport and how that compares with what they outlay now, being just an engine supplier. He also confirms that Renault threatened to quit the sport completely this summer over the 2014 engine rules.

“We are a total cost around €120m,” said Caubet, explaining how much they spend on the existing engine programme. “The net cost – total cost minus sales – is €60m. For €60m you have a big exposure in the world”.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/11/t ... ing-in-f1/


F1 engines.