Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[Tyler]

Just how good is Wirth?
Has he ever been involved in anything succesful?
Wasn't he the aero guy at Williams during the Montoya years?
I know Williams were doing quite well back then but I seem to remember a lot of that came from the BMW engine being very powerful and that the aerodynamics, for which he was responsible, wasn't the cars strong point and the reason they finished behind McLaren and Ferrari.
I know he was at Red Bull in '09 when they developed the RB5 which was obviously a very good car but he was Technical Director then, not the Aerodynamicist.
Seeing as though the RB7 evolved from the RB5 and RB6, I wonder if he can bring any secrets regarding them.
Perhaps if he was involved a bit earlier, we may have seen a more Red Bull looking car but he probably joined too late to have that kind of impact.

[wunderkind]

I do agree there were some areas on the W02 where the aesthetics did indeed looked second rate. But I think it was the result of a small team with a tight schedule to meet and rushed to produce all these parts.

In all honesty, I see that excuse as more than a little shaky now. Mercedes is certainly not the only team running to tight deadlines, they're not a small team and there are teams with less resources and less money producing better components.

I think all those components produced would have met or exceeded their manufacturing tolerances and specifications. The team would not have raced those components if they didn't. The point I was making was that they didn't look very good aesthetically.

[xpensive]

...
The point I was making was that they didn't look very good aesthetically.

And the point I'm trying to make is that an unpleasant xterior often tells a story of the general attention to quality.

[elf341]

Just how good is Wirth?
Has he ever been involved in anything succesful?

I think you mean Willis, not Wirth. If Mercedes had hired Nick Wirth, I think I'd have to sever my allegiance!

As for Geoff Willis, apart from being the TD of Red Bull during the development of the very successful RB5 (the DNA of which is very clearly inside the RB6 and RB7) - he was the designer of the BAR006 which was the 2nd fastest car in 2004 behind the hugely dominant F2004, and which was demonstrably quicker than the Newey designed MP4-19.



He was fired from Honda in 2006 after his RA106 - which Honda had declared must be a championship contender - only achieved 1 win. The suits in Tokyo replaced Willis with Shuhei Nakamoto - a born and bred Honda guy - who embarrassed himself by designing a car that was slower and routinely beaten by Willis' RA106 from the previous year (Honda sold the RA106 designs to Super Aguri for the '07 season).

Regarding his Williams career, the FW24, with Willis as chief aerodynamicist, soundly beat the Newey-designed MP4-17. To a lesser extent, the FW23 was on a par with the McLaren, although suffered a lot from unreliability.
It's my opinion that much of Williams' 90s/00s success was due to the Newey/Willis combo, and that Newey's departure was the first omen of the fall to come, with the exit of Willis as the final nail in the coffin.

[Tyler]

...

Yes, thanks Elf341, I meant Willis not Wirth - too many late nights
I'm also hugely thankful it's not Wirth!

[NewtonMeter]

Just how good is Wirth?
Has he ever been involved in anything succesful?

I think you mean Willis, not Wirth. If Mercedes had hired Nick Wirth, I think I'd have to sever my allegiance!

...and so on and so forth... - I'm looking at you mx_tifosi

By your description, he sounds like exactly the kind of guy Merc needs. Lets see what he can do with the W03, although yes the vast majority of it has been completed. Hopefully he (and Costa of-course) makes the extra week of development time count, though.

I must say I'm very excited about the W03.

[Adamski]

And don't forget guys, that Costa now also works for Mercedes at least ten days.

Of course it is too late for the new engineers to get their knowledge into the base of the W03. But in the other way, it is time to see, how Mercedes can progress during the season.
It will be interesting to see, if we will be slower a bit then the top guys (I think in reality, it will be the case) but during the long season, Mercedes will close the gap slowly.
The truth is, that Red Bull now got around 0.8 sec/lap lead over the second team. So even with a radical car, we need to play catch-up. I feel it is very-very hard time, but hope dies last! [-o<

[Guest_no_1]

Hi guys

Newbie here. Seen a youtube video where Michael Schumacher was taking Lee McKenzie around the factory for a tour. Right around 2min 31 sec, there showed a nose cone that looks neither like w01 nor w02.

I suspect my eyes are playing tricks on me. Perhaps I could find another opinion here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cwnJShOF8Q

Thanks for your attention.

[astracrazy]

i think W02.

You won't see anything (officially) until the launch. Or teasers like Merc done last year

There are rule changes around nose heights next year, so they will want to keep there cards close to there chest

[N12ck]

Hi guys

Newbie here. Seen a youtube video where Michael Schumacher was taking Lee McKenzie around the factory for a tour. Right around 2min 31 sec, there showed a nose cone that looks neither like w01 nor w02.

I suspect my eyes are playing tricks on me. Perhaps I could find another opinion here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cwnJShOF8Q

Thanks for your attention.

The date on the vid is July 2011, they hadnt started developing the 2012 car then i think, and if they had, they wouldnt show everyone their nose cone

[gerhard]

Hi guys

Newbie here. Seen a youtube video where Michael Schumacher was taking Lee McKenzie around the factory for a tour. Right around 2min 31 sec, there showed a nose cone that looks neither like w01 nor w02.

I suspect my eyes are playing tricks on me. Perhaps I could find another opinion here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cwnJShOF8Q

Thanks for your attention.

I think it is just a BGP001 nosecose with a W02 painting on it. Probably for a show car.

[NonNewtonic]

Indeed it is it will be ridiculous to manufacture the body piece that early as the development of the car is still in progress and there is a higher risk for the design being exposed to their opponent

[Tyler]

The truth is, that Red Bull now got around 0.8 sec/lap lead over the second team. So even with a radical car, we need to play catch-up. I feel it is very-very hard time, but hope dies last! [-o<

Not necessarily - whenever the rules change it stands to reason that whoever has benefited the most from those rules has the most to lose when those rules change.
And the rules have changed.
Without the EBD's and with the lower noses Red Bull might not be so dominant - at least in those areas of the car everyone is starting from zero.

[marcush.]

I believe that mun is somewhat worried that MGP, or whaever the team is called at the moment, is wasting precious testing-time with a car not equipped in an optimal or relevant fashion JET. As for myself, I'm far more concerned over how much of an attitude-change Bob Bell has managed to introduce in the engineering- and production department for the W03.

When managing an engineering team is what I do for a living, however in an environment a far cry from F1 standards, I have learned the hard way just how much of a tell-tale a sloppy appearance can be of an in-depth negligence to general quality.

I believe marcush would agree with me there?

I do .

And I would even go a step further and say:a good design will show its beauty and be ready in time.End of story.
It´s not like the deadline appears miraculously at the horizon for these people ,they worked their whole life to this hard and unmoveable milestones and you need very good reason to start early your next year project and you need even better reasons to borrow some time and introduce your car later than desireable.
I wonder just what Willis or other new staff in the company came up with in terms of ideas and information that made Bell bow and delay the new car.It must be something serious as at this time you would be far advanced with your stuff and you have to get serious in terms of crash test scheduling.I believe they comitted to changing some serious things ...and I´m not sure if that is a good or a bad sign.

[NonNewtonic]

The truth is, that Red Bull now got around 0.8 sec/lap lead over the second team. So even with a radical car, we need to play catch-up. I feel it is very-very hard time, but hope dies last! [-o<

Not necessarily - whenever the rules change it stands to reason that whoever has benefited the most from those rules has the most to lose when those rules change.
And the rules have changed.
Without the EBD's and with the lower noses Red Bull might not be so dominant - at least in those areas of the car everyone is starting from zero.

I don't agree with that RBR can be so dominant not just because the benefit from the EBD its the overall design of the car which is efficient and extremely reliable