Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[xpensive]

...

I do .

And I would even go a step further and say:a good design will show its beauty and be ready in time.End of story.
It´s not like the deadline appears miraculously at the horizon for these people ,they worked their whole life to this hard and unmoveable milestones and you need very good reason to start early your next year project and you need even better reasons to borrow some time and introduce your car later than desireable.
...

Sadly enough marcush, as a freelance over the past years and sometimes hired to clean up the mess, I often find myself having to choose between being late or half-arsed, when the former wins. Not to compare myself with Bob Bell in any way.

However, it will be xtremely interesting to behold the first images of the W03, when I have a feeling that another scruffy look from Brackley will not trigger as much controversy and arguments on the board as the W02 did last last January?

[Hemsy]

IMO not using the new car at the first test was something that Merc planned all along and not a result of consequence. Last year they made a mistake where they introduced a very basic car (some would even say unfinished) and then bolted a substantial upgrade. Doing so meant that they did not know the effect each new individual part had on the performance and set-up of the car. This time round they plan to launch a much more developed car with a smaller upgrade at the final test so they have more time to test the car in its near final specification. Plus two more weeks means that Willis and Costa have more time to incorporate some of their ideas in the development of the car.

[NonNewtonic]

I don't think they will manage to apply any concept from Wills or Costa on the car as they don't have enough time to fully utilise the concept. I think the reason behind the delay is because the team think that it's better to spent more time on developing the car back in the factory rather than rushing all the way and ended up with a sucky car. Another theory will be there is a radical solution on the car where the team wouldn't want to expose it to their opponent that early so they rather use the first test to understand the tyres on the car they familiar with so that no tyre blister or graining problem with their car like what happened last season.

[elf341]

I think you're right in the sense that definitely Costa, and probably also Willis, will not be able to affect the overall vision of this car. To say that they can't apply /any/ concept I think is a bit too strong.

For starters, while the chassis may be virtually set in stone by Bell before Willis' arrival, other aspects of the car can certainly be adapted to improve performance. For example, in 2009 many teams were able to significantly boost their performance by working on DDD even though their chassis had not been fundamentally designed to incorporate it. RBR introduced their DDD in Monaco '09 which was - conservatively - 3 months after they started work on it. If we assume that Willis managed to take 1 month before he got into steady-state work mode, that leaves 3 months before the first test that Mercedes intends to show the W03.

Also, if anyone could hit the ground running at Brackley, it is Willis. Their wind-tunnel was personally commissioned by Willis to meet his specifications back in the 2004 BAR/Honda days.

[munudeges]

For me, poor fit and finish and aesthetics is simply a symptom of the state of mind. The trouble for Mercedes is that things have generally been late and half arsed. You might expect that in a company where morale is poor in an industry where motivation is a problem, and it happens, but surely not a Formula 1 team?

The poor finish is a symptom of their inability to make the right decisions, as pointed out by many judgemental people on this board. We had the young driver test example a few pages back and a few of us judgemental characters had a go at Mercedes for their illogical approach to winter testing last year, and lo and behold, Ross Brawn then comes out later this year and tells everyone they were wrong after all.

Something is still not right in that team and it remains to be seen whether Willis, Costa and Bell can have any effect.

[wesley123]

One thing I noticed in the vid was that the factory seems to be incredibly crowded and too small. How in the room they were 3 a breast, 2 with a pc and 1 with a laptop. I am in the opinion that that isnt good for the workflow as well as conflicts are just more likely to happen. When I in the classroom(where we have to work alone long times after each other and find things out myself) have lot's of people close to me I notice I can focus much less. I cannot see how that would be different in this environment

[MercAMGF1Fans]

Hi All, Great thread, just came to see if there was anything new, So far everyone is tight lipped apart from what Sam Bird reported at Abu Dhabi.

Fingers cross we have a decent car next year

[Mr.S]

They have probably went for a hiring spree without really expanding the factory.

[Hemsy]

I doubt they lack space in the factory because Mercedes was previously Honda who had one of the largest workforce in F1. The big teams were said to have around 600 people working in the factory where as now it is closer to 400 thanks to the RRA. If anything they should be able to fit another 200 people in there.

[marcush.]

For me, poor fit and finish and aesthetics is simply a symptom of the state of mind. The trouble for Mercedes is that things have generally been late and half arsed. You might expect that in a company where morale is poor in an industry where motivation is a problem, and it happens, but surely not a Formula 1 team?

The poor finish is a symptom of their inability to make the right decisions, as pointed out by many judgemental people on this board. We had the young driver test example a few pages back and a few of us judgemental characters had a go at Mercedes for their illogical approach to winter testing last year, and lo and behold, Ross Brawn then comes out later this year and tells everyone they were wrong after all.

Something is still not right in that team and it remains to be seen whether Willis, Costa and Bell can have any effect.

so true

to me this is a really nice summary of Mercedes R&D .They really have difficulty to differentiate the effective from the just a lot of work for little to no return developments and that is VERY worrying as they live and breathe Formula 1 and are in the middle of it and havingf clear targets in RBR and Mclaren(who even share their engine and KERS!).

There is NO confidence inside the team it seems as very early on people don´t act along the words they are choosing..
We have to move forward ,improve ,we know we have a good car ,have made significant steps ...blabla...but in the end all the ambitious inventions had NO remarkable effect on performance.One would expect going for an extremely short wheelbase car would give big advantages on some tracks but be a drawback on others ,but in reality the gap to MCL and RedBull did not really change much over the year hinting at :lots of work done to package the car with a short wheelbase for NO advanatge at all .In fact the impact of having to innovate new cooling architecture led to overheating trouble compromising aero -and that was really the story since day one...an improvement can only be used if it is well thought out and executed ,but they had to cut holes and compromise to make it work and so could not make use of the benefits of their short package...clearly they fell short of achieving their potential .
Then they started next years car early as they clearly lost hope to close the gap in season ...but why on earth would you want to start testing in 2012 with a hopeless moron? I for once would have pushed to be ready with the first iteration of 2012 s w03 and do the young driver test with it and be READY at full chat when the season is starting and let the others play catchup...

[NonNewtonic]

For me, poor fit and finish and aesthetics is simply a symptom of the state of mind. The trouble for Mercedes is that things have generally been late and half arsed. You might expect that in a company where morale is poor in an industry where motivation is a problem, and it happens, but surely not a Formula 1 team?

The poor finish is a symptom of their inability to make the right decisions, as pointed out by many judgemental people on this board. We had the young driver test example a few pages back and a few of us judgemental characters had a go at Mercedes for their illogical approach to winter testing last year, and lo and behold, Ross Brawn then comes out later this year and tells everyone they were wrong after all.

Something is still not right in that team and it remains to be seen whether Willis, Costa and Bell can have any effect.

so true

to me this is a really nice summary of Mercedes R&D .They really have difficulty to differentiate the effective from the just a lot of work for little to no return developments and that is VERY worrying as they live and breathe Formula 1 and are in the middle of it and havingf clear targets in RBR and Mclaren(who even share their engine and KERS!).

There is NO confidence inside the team it seems as very early on people don´t act along the words they are choosing..
We have to move forward ,improve ,we know we have a good car ,have made significant steps ...blabla...but in the end all the ambitious inventions had NO remarkable effect on performance.One would expect going for an extremely short wheelbase car would give big advantages on some tracks but be a drawback on others ,but in reality the gap to MCL and RedBull did not really change much over the year hinting at :lots of work done to package the car with a short wheelbase for NO advanatge at all .In fact the impact of having to innovate new cooling architecture led to overheating trouble compromising aero -and that was really the story since day one...an improvement can only be used if it is well thought out and executed ,but they had to cut holes and compromise to make it work and so could not make use of the benefits of their short package...clearly they fell short of achieving their potential .
Then they started next years car early as they clearly lost hope to close the gap in season ...but why on earth would you want to start testing in 2012 with a hopeless moron? I for once would have pushed to be ready with the first iteration of 2012 s w03 and do the young driver test with it and be READY at full chat when the season is starting and let the others play catchup...

Its not true saying that both Mercedes and McLaren are using the same KERS system as McLaren did modify it to suit into their car and I don't think you could compare the performance just base on they are using the same engine. Yes it is true that both teams used the same engine but in terms of technical approach taken by both team is totally different! For McLaren the opted to design their car around the exhaust and fully utilise the exhaust gas while Mercedes decided to run it with a shorter wheelbase. It is also difficult to compare which package is better as Mercedes's season is hindered with bunch of problems like overheating and excessive tyre degradation which used up quite a lot of their resources to sort out all these problem. You must also recognise that the W02 is not a bad car at all it was proven it could be fast still remember in China where Nico was most certainly winning the race before being hit running low of fuel and in Turkey where Nico qualified 3rd right behind those Bulls? The second half of the season Mercedes basically diverged most of their resources to develop the next season car as they realised the gap between the front runners is just too big after spending most of the time solving their problem rather than developing the car?

@marcush

It is wrong to apply their 2012 design of the car during the Young Driver Test as it was going against the rules! please read the rule book before criticising them! And why would hell on earth the team want to apply their 2012 concept during the Young Driver Test even though it was allowed? By the time the next season started all the teams will be able to copy it fully and apply it on their car as they have the whole winter break to work on it?! [...]

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+10000 nonewtonic
Mercedes accepted the flaws of the W02 and near enough stopped work on the car in specific areas to focus on what it could carry forward to 2012 like the front wing etc. They were also held back by cooling issues early on that were unforeseen. And with their radiator layout this year, what's to say they don't implement a workable idea the like of which Ferrari are allegedly working on?



The w03 will benefit because of it.

So looking at the w02 and questioning mercedes working methods when alot of priorities had been shifted to 2012 early on is harsh.
Lest we forget the W02 was borne in June 2010... 7 months into mercedes ownership.... Brings into focus a bit no? And it was also the 4th fastest car consistenty.
So those working methods may not be the best, but they are 4th best!

At least with the w03 we will see some working influences of the decisions that have been made over the last 24 months. Then we can say wether the shift is heading in the right direction for the w03 or not.

A question now... Will u pods mated to a non ebd design have benefits? I understand Ferrari to working on an entirely new floor concept that utilises oncoming air in a very specific fashion. The floor is central to the concept, bit how about a Torro Rosso style double floor mated to a McLaren style u pod?
Frankenstein sounding.... But could work well...

[FrukostScones]

I have the feeling that without ebd all the cars will be shorter than 2011 , and only the mercs will be longer than 2011. Lets hope it will not be the longest one?!

[xpensive]

...
@marcush

It is wrong to apply their 2012 design of the car during the Young Driver Test as it was going against the rules! please read the rule book before criticising them! And why would hell on earth the team want to apply their 2012 concept during the Young Driver Test even though it was allowed? By the time the next season started all the teams will be able to copy it fully and apply it on their car as they have the whole winter break to work on it?! It will be SILLY and RIDICULOUS to do so. So please THINK before you comment thx I really appreciate that!

Ooops...I beg to differ quite a bit there, the way I understand things, a 2012 diffuser/xhaust xecution would not go against the 2011 rules, even if the rules apply to the full during testing, which I doubt. With the xtremely limited testing time available in F1 today, I thought it would be wise to make the most of every opportunity given?

[NonNewtonic]

Nope what the other team did is evaluate their future programme using the current car thus you could see bunch of wierd sensors being equipped on the car and minor changes is allowed