Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

4 days for Michael to only test before Australia. This is an absolute joke.

So 3 tests with 12 days and micheal gets 4?

What planet are you on exactly?

there are three tests and 2 with the W03..thats 8 days. Whats so shock horror bout that?

[wunderkind]

4 days for Michael to only test before Australia. This is an absolute joke.

So 3 tests with 12 days and micheal gets 4?

What planet are you on exactly?

there are three tests and 2 with the W03..thats 8 days. Whats so shock horror bout that?

Yup, nothing too horrible about that. Also, for most teams, I suspect the first test would be tyre testing using the adapted 2011 cars to collect data and to establish a base-line performance for the 2012 tyres. It will be systems checks and data comparisons betweem the 2012 cars and the 2011 cars. Mercedes GP won't be losing too much time to their rivals.

I am optimistic of the W03. I have confidence in Bob Bell and his team's ability. I think the post-Honda team was a skeleton crew that was over-worked and underfunded.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt until the 3rd pre-season test.

[marcush.]

I have yet to find hard facts of Mclaren modifying the Mercedes supplied KERS ,in fact Me3rcedes has officially announced they are supplying Engine and KERS to MCL...

When I was at Mercedes AMG Powertrain (MBHPE) last week Andy Cowell confirmed all three teams get the same engines and KERS.

McLaren were the only team to run KERS in 2009 and this was provided by MBHPE with the reqiurement its didnt need structural changes to the car if they wanted to run without KERS. This what drove the pair to the sidepod mounted batteries. As opposed to the under fuel tank set up used by other teams in 2009 and MBHPE in 2011-2012.

So McLaren do not modify the KERS.

thanks for confirming this .The 2009 package was Zyteks development ,at least thats´s what they are stating officially.And they based their Ginetta LMP Hybrid deveelopment on it ,using less expensive materials and a different charge strategy.

[dren]

Ross Brawn quoted in Autosport:

"At the factory, we have been focused for some time on the challenge of 2012, and our very clear ambition to move forward up the grid next year," he said. "As always, the winter development and manufacturing processes are a trade-off between time for finding performance in the factory, and time for delivering that performance during pre-season testing.

"We believe that the decision to run the car at the second winter test is the optimum compromise for our design and development programme with F1 W03."



So they feel there is more performance to gain in longer development time when compared to unlocking that on track.

[xpensive]

...
So they feel there is more performance to gain in longer development time when compared to unlocking that on track.

I believe that what RB is really saing is something like this;

"Since Geoff showed up at our door two months ago and immedietly made our whole aerodynamic team look like a sorry band of utter morons, we have had to completely re-evaluate not only the nose-job but the aerodynamic concept in its entirety."

[wunderkind]

...
So they feel there is more performance to gain in longer development time when compared to unlocking that on track.

I believe that what RB is really saing is something like this;

"Since Geoff showed up at our door two months ago and immedietly made our whole aerodynamic team look like a sorry band of utter morons, we have had to completely re-evaluate not only the nose-job but the aerodynamic concept in its entirety."

I think Brawn made those remarks before Willis' arrival at the team.

[marcush.]

speaking of compromise..does that imply they cannot build the best car to start the season?
there is no tradeoff in these things.Mercedes has shown more than once that they are not quick in reading their own designs .They take an awful long time to develop and unleash the potential of their developments ,so having the car late is in other words throwing away the first three or so races with a potentiually better car but a less well sorted setup.A true tradeoff but unnecessary.
I´m really looking forward to see W03 now and as a matter of fact it should look like a hack again ....and then we got if it looks like a bodged design it most certainly is ...Big companies acting as big companies can be very sluggish ...Hopefully Bell is not already fed up with the goingons inside MGP..

I wonder how much magic Bell and Willis are able to contribute .Was Bell holding back his best ideas when at Renault ?or did Willis understand everything when at HRT but simply had no money and recource to even implement thee things that make a difference? Don´t get me wrong I rate those very high but could it be they don´t know their trade at MGP enough to let Those two pop in and tear down all the walls built in recent years...I would imagine the problems are more in the way things are decided / how the decision process for the project is carried forward.Clearly there is no stopping of ideas not worth pursuing /ideas /petprojects making it even to the races when obvious reasons for not implementing them are ignored or talked small (cooling issues as an example)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush

Do you even know the problems surrounding the cooling? Its all very well to criticize when it goes wrong, but the idea was and still is sound.
Its a complex arrangement that may or may not work first time. Unfortunately there are no guarantees in F1.

The car will be delayed to allow further development. There is no issue at all, besides how does the team know their is an intrinsic flaw until its tested against the competition.
The possibility that Costa or Willis may have seen something erroneous, and asked for a more time to reconfigure to their needs is a possibility.

But you have to say, this is the proper thing to do.

If these guys saw a problem or could implement an idea that would delay the car 1 week, then its an easy call. Can you imagine what you guys would be throwing at Mercedes if they turned up at the first test with a flaw or car that could've had more refinements?

[marcush.]

JET,
I claim you would never ever even try to put a trial and error approach to something like a cooling package .
So you design your system to the needs and then you evaluate your package on a testbench .
How you would possibly end up with a marginal cooling for a company like Mercedes with ALL information avaialable is beyond me.

You got the coolant flow and you got the airflow ..you know how much heat you need to dissipate ...get your tranfer rates wrong and you will need to open up the ducts to compensate as happened ....so someone was caught asleep at the beginning of last year ....The funny thing really that Mclaren had too much cooling at the start of the year..so the recommendations to the customer seems to be on the safe side ....also Mclaren had no big issues with KERS as well ...hows that when it was supplied by Mercedes and exactlky the same hardware and MGP had an awfullot of trouble at the start of the year...
Yes of course it´s harsh ,but then MGP is not Virgin and after all those years (and in the third season of running the Merc engine it is rather astonishing they have got their maths in cooling terribly wrong.who signed of these wrong and obviously different calculations?

[xpensive]

@JET & marcush;
For once I agree with both of you, missing the first test-sessions is in-xcusable considering the limited opportunites there are, unless you have stumbled on something serious along the way. Positive or negative, but something must have happened?

But as I guess marcush fears, they might just still the same slouches as always in Brackley, late for their own funeral?

Funny this guys, between us we have what, some 80 000 posts, which should give us some seniority over wunderkind's measy hundred-something?

[Mr.S]

Mclaren have announced that they will debut their car on the 1st TEST.

So now it's

Red Bull
Mclaren
Ferrari
Sauber
Williams
Carteham


Leaving out the two loosers(Virgin & HRT),all you have is Torro Rosso & Force India. I dont either of the two will join Mercedes. Mercedes along with the 2 looser teams will launch their cars late.

[Mr.S]

4 days for Michael to only test before Australia. This is an absolute joke.

So 3 tests with 12 days and micheal gets 4?

What planet are you on exactly?

there are three tests and 2 with the W03..thats 8 days. Whats so shock horror bout that?

JET you a clever educated dude. Why are you writing amateurish & ridiculous stuff.

I think you know the fact that they are allowed to test only 1 car. Dont you know that? So out of 12 days,4 days they waste with the OLD Dog of car.

The remaining 8 gets divided into Michael & Nico. That is 4 days for each driver. With only 6 days of pre-season testing/driver you cant waste 2 PRECIOUS days. That is all my point. You are clever enough to understand this simple thing JET.

Ross Brawn quoted in Autosport:

"At the factory, we have been focused for some time on the challenge of 2012, and our very clear ambition to move forward up the grid next year," he said. "As always, the winter development and manufacturing processes are a trade-off between time for finding performance in the factory, and time for delivering that performance during pre-season testing.

"We believe that the decision to run the car at the second winter test is the optimum compromise for our design and development programme with F1 W03."


So they feel there is more performance to gain in longer development time when compared to unlocking that on track.

That is all I have to say. The high-lighted words. They aborted the W02 long back & with increased manpower should get their car on time. I hate these stupid words. Look at Ferrari & Mercdes & how they are handling the situation.

Do you really for 1 second believe that 1 or 2 week of developing the car in the factory gives more than 4 Precious days of Testing. 4 Unlimited days of testing

[Mr.S]

speaking of compromise..does that imply they cannot build the best car to start the season?
there is no tradeoff in these things.Mercedes has shown more than once that they are not quick in reading their own designs .They take an awful long time to develop and unleash the potential of their developments ,so having the car late is in other words throwing away the first three or so races with a potentiually better car but a less well sorted setup.A true tradeoff but unnecessary.
I´m really looking forward to see W03 now and as a matter of fact it should look like a hack again ....and then we got if it looks like a bodged design it most certainly is ...Big companies acting as big companies can be very sluggish ...Hopefully Bell is not already fed up with the goingons inside MGP..

I wonder how much magic Bell and Willis are able to contribute .Was Bell holding back his best ideas when at Renault ?or did Willis understand everything when at HRT but simply had no money and recource to even implement thee things that make a difference? Don´t get me wrong I rate those very high but could it be they don´t know their trade at MGP enough to let Those two pop in and tear down all the walls built in recent years...I would imagine the problems are more in the way things are decided / how the decision process for the project is carried forward.Clearly there is no stopping of ideas not worth pursuing /ideas /petprojects making it even to the races when obvious reasons for not implementing them are ignored or talked small (cooling issues as an example)

Fundamentally I agree with your 1st line that you abort your previous car to focus on the next season & you cant get your car on time. THE CARS are supposed to launched so that they can be tested for pre-season testing. This is Mercdedes not HRT. 4 days of unlimited running & the possiblity of exploring set-ups issues & the tyre performance is big. You are right in the fact that they are already giving up on the first 3-4 tests.

This looks like W02 over again. I really hope Bell or Willis have a really killer idea. Frankly I look at Ferrari & their dont mess me or you'll get screwed attitude & Mercdes,their baggage of excuses & HRT type mentality & it's very dissapointing.

I want to see Michael climb the top step of the podium once & I dont want Nico Rosberg to Heidfield Part 2(with more talent).

[Richard]

Do you really for 1 second believe that 1 or 2 week of developing the car in the factory gives more than 4 Precious days of Testing. 4 Unlimited days of testing

Console yourself with the thought that the RB6 was also late.

[Tyler]

I believe that Merc are hiding something.
They're delaying the launch to a point where the other teams won't be able to copy their idea in time for the first race.