COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

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What do you think of the prospect of a USGP 2012 at Austin Texas

Good thinking. Place has good infra structure and nice climate in winter.
126
47%
Not good as it has no motor sport tradition in the US.
23
9%
I will wait to see how it will shape up.
97
36%
I don't care.
23
9%
 
Total votes: 269

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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xpensive wrote:To my humble mind, any event, be that F1 or NBA, should pay their own bils.
That is simply not the reality. One of the biggest publicly subsidized F1 races is Australia. They have been a precedent for other democratic countries. The main argument pro public subsidies in the past was the economic benefit brought to the city of Melbourne and the state of Victoria. In the early years of the subsidy that was a valid argument IMO. But the Australian GP's deficit has grown in an uncontrolled way. This happened partly due to the lack of a dedicated facility which necessitates expensive annual rebuilds of the track, the grandstands and the safety fencing. The other reason is the annual increase rate of the race fee which is driven by the monopoly structure of F1. I mention Australia to show what I think is appropriate and what is not.

I think that a deal like the METF is properly justified by the economic stimulation it provides. Why should economic stimulation not be applied to the entertainment business but always to high tech and other businesses? If the amount of seed money generates a sustainable growth with jobs and secondary stimulation of other businesses why not? Particularly if you are not actually spending any money because the scheme is self financing, as in Austin.

The tax payer in Texas will not loose any money whichever way it goes. If the race gets established it will generate some business which will be taxed. Only those taxes which will be generated by the race itself are promised to be paid back to the promoters. I think that is a fair deal. The promoters have all the risk. If the economic impact is only $180m CotA will get only $11.7m after the race is run and the taxes of $11.7m are in the bank.

It is a sensible mechanism which generates no risk at all to the Texas tax payers, which is the opposite situation as faced by the Australian tax payers of Victoria. The Victorians keep paying for an uncontrolled deficit and not for the economic benefit of the race. The Texans will know exactly how long CotA will receive the taxes that are collected from the business they create. It is a contractually agreed period which is probably for five or seven years. Details are not published yet. The Victorians can expect the deficit to grow year by year and there is no end in sight. When the first F1 contract runs out - probably in 2017 - Austin will have a first class facility with an on going economic impact. The impact will continue even if they stop holding an F1 GP there. By then the economic impact of the F1 race may go back to zero but the facility will still be generating economic impact of perhaps $200m a year with other races, cultural and corporate events. Those estimated additional $13m taxes per annum will be sustainable and are the reward for the state of Texas for running the METF scheme.

I hope that we are much clearer now what is a proper and beneficial economic incentive and what is unwise and potentially corrupt deficit financing by public money. The former is entirely correct IMO. The later obviously should be avoided. For me the F1 race in Austin will be paying it's own bill.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
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Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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BTW, it's raining again today. Back during the delays I told my friends these guys would regret missing all these nice, dry working days. It's not like you can just bank 'em & use 'em later.

It's been almost 2 weeks since they signed the deal with Bernie & work out at the site is still very spotty & slow.



Also, we found two stories regarding Kevin Schwantz's motorcycle riding school. Apparently the COTA delays have forced Schwantz to keep his school at Barber for at least another year.



Schwantz School has tentative date for Austin:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Dec/11121834sk.htm
The final school might be the most special of the year for Schwantz. If the facility is ready, the Schwantz School will have its first two-day event at the Circuit of the Americas near Schwantz's home in Austin, Texas before the end of the year. If it happens, the first school at COTA will be a preview of 2013, when the track becomes the permanent home of the Schwantz School.


Schwantz School delays departure from Road Atlanta:

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road- ... to-ducati/
The school's move back to Road Atlanta wasn't planned. Originally, the plan was to move to a permanent base at the new Circuit of the Americas in Austin, Texas, but that track has beset with various financial problems which have delayed construction. So the school is going back to Road Atlanta and also to Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

"We had told Barber that we were probably leaving at the end of the year in hopes that things would be done in Austin a lot earlier than they are actually going to be done," Schwantz said. "We just needed a place to go. Barber's been okay to us; it's just been a tough place with the cost of the track, plus medical. It's just a really, really big nut to crack every two-day program that we run. In our three years there, we were never allowed a three-day weekend. We never got a three-day weekend. We had to go to Atlanta to get our three-day. They're busy enough, I guess, as it is that they didn't have to cater to us."
Last edited by hairy_scotsman on 19 Dec 2011, 18:37, edited 1 time in total.
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hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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I've mentioned a couple times having heard a rumor of a GP in the works on the West Coast, likely the Bay Area. Here's a story re: a SF firm considering a bid for the F1 commercial rights:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2728 ... rs-f1-bid/
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... riefs-121/
Last edited by hairy_scotsman on 19 Dec 2011, 19:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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I think that's more CVC shopping around their media rights, rather than a race. But who knows, maybe San Francisco would get a race out of the deal to boot. Wouldn't be a bad venue, for sure.

My take on Bernie's comments is that he's just frustrated that no US promoter is willing to hand him their checkbook. He complains that the US should be big enough to support as many races as Europe, yet he wants to charge far east race fees. He needs to realize that the only people willing to pay those prices are nouveau riche nations looking for a little bling.

The US could certainly support three or four races. Indy still holds the attendance records for the sport, after all, and thats for a lousy circuit in a lousy location with lousy promotion in a country that supposedly doesn't 'get' F1. Perhaps Bernie is the one who needs to look at the long term and not worry so much about his first year profits.

But of course, he's under orders to get the money pouring in *now*, if CVC is to flip the sport like has always been rumored.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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What ever happened to the 80s ideas of doing it in the streets, like Detroit, a Vegas car park, Dallas or Phoenix?

I think Seattle should be helluva venue for such an event, waterfront scenics with a europhile population to match?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

lotus7
lotus7
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Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 16:23

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Well, Bernie is quoted that South Africa will be on in 2013 ....

As WB said.... dream on. Politicians and chancers can only w*** so much.

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Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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If they had the race in Phoenix AZ it would be all 90 degree corners but the roads are über smooth. Driving around in my lowered truck there was a dream.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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lotus7 wrote:Well, Bernie is quoted that South Africa will be on in 2013 ....
Is the once glorious Kyalami track still intact, or is it rebuilt into an asparagus field or something?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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He needs to realize that the only people willing to pay those prices are nouveau riche nations looking for a little bling.
Ya got that right Pup
I think Seattle should be helluva venue for such an event, waterfront scenics with a europhile population to match?
And almost guaranteed rain.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Its just Bernie stirring things up in the off season, its what he does.

Its very simple negotiating tactics, he's talking about how an F1 race can command such high fees so that when he does his next deal in America he can pretend he's giving the promoter a deep discount.

Its also why the Austin deal being renegotiated was a jackpot for him. It reinforced his reputation as a man who never gives discounts, and also set a benchmark fee for future USA races.


Anyway this is nearing its sell by date, Bernie will be talking about medals in January.

lotus7
lotus7
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Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 16:23

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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xpensive wrote:
lotus7 wrote:Well, Bernie is quoted that South Africa will be on in 2013 ....
Is the once glorious Kyalami track still intact, or is it rebuilt into an asparagus field or something?
The once glorious Kyalami is long gone , I think in the 80's already. The new ciruit, the Sunset, Clubhouse corners having been retained, had been used since - even for a total of 2 Grands Prix in the early 90's IIRC . It is just a point , squirt, brake , turn circuit now - sad . The rest of the place is Industrial Parks and Secure Housing Estates - very popular here for a good reason
Oh, and FWIW , it is yet again in financial trouble ( what's new ) Entry fees for Club racing is now more double than that of Killarney in Cape Town

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Formula One cars passing the fish market and waterfront in Seattle during the city's fmous rain-festival, which is held annualy from January 1 to December 31st, would be something to behold indeed.

Perhaps Microsoft would care to sponsor the event, imagine that, someone actually richer than MrE?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Richard
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Mr E would like it - it'd save a fortune on installing sprinklers

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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richard_leeds wrote:Mr E would like it - it'd save a fortune on installing sprinklers
MrE would probably find a way to overcharge MrG for FOM installing half a dozen tiny drying-fans, for "reasons of safety",
while also adding insult to injury by demanding Mac-computers all around?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Work on the grandstand retaining wall:

Image

Pit Bulding C:

Image
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