Toyota TF110

[Giblet]

I look at it like the RB-5 and STR-4.

Both cars looked almost identical at launch, but were far from equal on the track. They both came from the same mind, built in the same shop.

The cars were so massively different on the track, how could anyone look at both cars and tell me which one would actually be quicker, without knowing of course the B team would be slower.?

I'm not doubting your aero knowledge would give you an edge on telling which car _might_ be better than another ringo, but when the entire field is separated by just a second (not counting new teams of course) in qualifying at some races and you can't see the floor for example, it's too tight a call for even human to know it can't win a race from a limited set of pics.

Maybe the chunky rear is there for a reason. Maybe there is aero trick in the diffuser we can't see that trumps the loss you perceive. You can't look at the RB6 and know that it has a trick front wing (or whatever it was) that can flex around the rules. You couldn't look at the MP4-25 and know it had the F-Duct at launch.

My point is, no one can 'know', but some can guess better then others.

[Just_a_fan]

Wow, in the red paint the car looks strikingly similar to the F10.

Wouldn't be the first time a Toyota looked like a Ferrari...

[747heavy]

I still don´t get the idea behind those extremely angled rads ...

from a (very) old book about race car design, maybe worth to think about..........

[ringo]

Yes I was party to the discussion and I still maintain my stance;
Can you theoretically characterise a car's aero based on its appearance? YES
Can anyone on this forum do this with any kind of accuracy? NO

I will still call BS on 99% of the aerodynamic claims cooked up by this forum in the next month when the new vehicles are released.

Tim

Yes, i agree. It's humanly possible but most can't do it to even 50% accuracy, but we still can draw some vague conclusions, such as if this works well or that is causing this to happen. However i wouldn't say it cannot be done meaningfully by anyone here; we don't know who's using those pictures posted on the site.

I can look on a rb6 and a piece of crap HRT and tell you which one is the better car.
We know what to look for that gives performance. So it can be done to some degree by anyone on this site.

Concerning the TF110, someone said it could have won races this year, i don't know how they came to that conclussion(maybe doing the same thing i am doing ) but my opinion was: i don't think so; judging from the simple looking sidepods, wide exahuast manifolds, making for a wide waist. and we know the slim waist and tight body work and radiator packaging were features to have this year.

It's not hard to believe this car, driven by pilots less skilled than Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, is not likely to beat the rb6 to race wins.
It "looks" quick, but not as refined as the debuted Rb6 in the aero department.
The DDD is huge,but we'll never know how well it works.

[ringo]

I look at it like the RB-5 and STR-4.

Both cars looked almost identical at launch, but were far from equal on the track. They both came from the same mind, built in the same shop.

The cars were so massively different on the track, how could anyone look at both cars and tell me which one would actually be quicker, without knowing of course the B team would be slower.?

I'm not doubting your aero knowledge would give you an edge on telling which car _might_ be better than another ringo, but when the entire field is separated by just a second (not counting new teams of course) in qualifying at some races and you can't see the floor for example, it's too tight a call for even human to know it can't win a race from a limited set of pics.

Maybe the chunky rear is there for a reason. Maybe there is aero trick in the diffuser we can't see that trumps the loss you perceive. You can't look at the RB6 and know that it has a trick front wing (or whatever it was) that can flex around the rules. You couldn't look at the MP4-25 and know it had the F-Duct at launch.

My point is, no one can 'know', but some can guess better then others.

But you see you broadened the subject. Remember I said aero, i excluded mechanicals and suspension. I was looking solely at aero. The front is nice, and the diffuser, but the midbody seems a bit outdated; kinda like the 2010 lotus midbody.

[Giblet]

Actually all I had mentioned was aero bits, I never talked about the suspension, but I'm not here to nitpick

The TF110 has had no updates as of yet, it's still the spec car AFAIK. Alas, it sure would have been an interesting car to see anyways, especually once it received mid season updates like the EBD and maybe a sidepod redesign as you say.

[marcush.]

jumbos lateral thinking.. I like that..

the rise of hot air helping heat dissipation ..understood.but how much will that help at speed?

[Richard]

Without wishing to go far off topic, we did spot the F duct at launch. The big bulge and the hole at the back gave it away. Although it did take a couple of weeks.

[PNSD]

I think what really gave it away was Mclaren's testing of different inlets over the top of the cockpit aswell...

But again, sorry to drift off-topic!

But back on it; If the TF110 was built on the fundemental's of the TF109 then it would have been a good car, theres no doubt. Who's to say how good is another matter. If it were a winning car, then I have no doubt that they would have finished well below RBR,Mclaren, Ferrari and maybe even Mercedes. I do not think the drivers would have been able to get the most of the car. They would have had a rookie in Kobayashi (albiet an impressive driver!) and most likley Timo Glock.

I would like to think somebody would buy this car and at least let it run at Goodwood. Its always a shame when a racecar never get's to play on its intended playground.

[Giblet]

Without wishing to go far off topic, we did spot the F duct at launch. The big bulge and the hole at the back gave it away. Although it did take a couple of weeks.

I was one of the few people actually trying to tell everyone what the F-duct was, and nobody believed me for ages It was a very trying time.

[astracrazy]

i remember the guy from mclaren (gooney?) posting about it this time last year 'The Deadzone'.

that's me assuming the f-duct was what he was on about...

[PlatinumZealot]

The Toyota TF110 car will be revived for 2012/2013?

You heard it here first!

[allstaruk08]

is it going to be pirelli's new test car? i read a few week ago they're looking to get an upgrade to the toyota tf109

[megz]

The Toyota TF110 car will be revived for 2012/2013?

You heard it here first!

Like Toro Rosso will be the 3rd fastest car of 2011?

[MIKEY_!]

Lets see: new nose (and probably tub), new front suspension, new diffuser (and probably floor), addition of KERS. Have I missed anything? The TF110 will not return. The best it can hope for is to be used as an aerodynamic study piece for one of the smaller teams.