McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

[MIKEY_!]

What's the efficiency like if you use it backwards (to generate electricity) and then use that electricity to generate heat somewhere else on the car in a more focused way.

[Owen.C93]

I'm assuming they'll be using something similar for 2014 with HERS. TBH right now I could see it being used to help with KERS cooling but I don't know what the regs dictate.

Edit: Here's his source presumably. Seems to me the guy was just saying if anyone would try and use it it would be McLaren

https://twitter.com/#!/Truzonef1/status ... 8942638080

[mith]

What's the efficiency like if you use it backwards (to generate electricity) and then use that electricity to generate heat somewhere else on the car in a more focused way.

Well, I'm not arguing that whole that story with Peltier Effect is such a great idea, but you can also say exactly the same thing about 'normal' KERS. You use energy from brakes to generate electricity which is used to speed up car which in turn is heating brakes even more which... and so on I believe you get my point

So my answer to your question is, that in general all the teams are constantly trying to reuse and recycle the energy, which is being released at some parts of the car as a side effect product i.e. velocity of the gases in EBD.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Sorry peltier effect? Can anyone dumb that down slightly haha?

Someone else posted a link to the definition. What using the Peltier Effect would allow on this years F1 car is this:

It would be possible to redirect the hot engine air to the diffuser, recovering some of the downforce lost by the EBD. But there are drawbacks, the great weight and power consumption would require, the prolem of reliability would be constant.

The Peltier effect refers to the creation of a temperature difference due to an electrical voltage. It happens when a current is passed through two semiconductors connected by two "Peltier junctions." The current favorable heat transfer of a joint to the other: one cools while another warms. F1 is applied to very complex involving the weight, although I use it as part of the ballast could be a decompensation of the balance of the car. On the other hand would increase the power consumption which could cause major reliability problems.

To explain a little comment on the Peltier effect which is basically creating a temperature difference from an electric potential difference. It occurs when a current passes through two semiconductors (n-type and p-type) that are connected together in two welds (Peltier junctions). The current produces heat transfer from a junction, it cools, to the other, which is heated. The effect is used for thermoelectric cooling.

Will they use it, obviously I don't know, but word is they have been toying with it.

@Shelly two different sources. First is GPCast and the other is TruZoneF1

[mith]

Does anyone have any idea how effective that process is (how much heat can be transferred and how much electricity - current and voltage - is needed)?

[shelly]

@vrucial: redirecting hot air to the diffuser and peltier effect are two very different things.
maybe they are after meredith effect, as discussed on this forum in the past months

[litespeedf1]

found this on twitter

'@Truzonef1 so redbull mclaren will have "Peltier" and ferrari not?'

'@alogoc Red Bull and McLaren are considering, although there are many drawbacks. Mainly the weight of the panels and power consumption.'

[aleks_ader]

Does anyone have any idea how effective that process is (how much heat can be transferred and how much electricity - current and voltage - is needed)?

Thermoelectric junctions are generally only around 5–10% as efficient as the ideal refrigerator (Carnot cycle), compared with 40–60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems .

And when you rises voltage and became the heat transer more slower!

Very low efficietly i m very unsurtend if this would help! Beacuse this is on my opinion waste a lot of precious energy...

anyway here is very interesting study:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1105001079

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/20 ... .Ph.r.html




And patents drawings...
http://www.google.si/patents?hl=sl&lr=& ... cy&f=false

[mith]

Thanks, aleksandergreat. That's exactly what I was looking for!

[aleks_ader]

Thanks, aleksandergreat. That's exactly what I was looking for!

No problem!

[shelly]

Ok now I have read a bit more and built the bridges I was missing. Please confirm if I have got it well: the rumor is that mclaren and maybe rbr are trying to use the peltier effect to improve cooling and use the heat extracted from the engine/rads to accelerate the outside flow (that would be using Rayleigh effect I think?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_flow

[aleks_ader]

Ok now I have read a bit more and built the bridges I was missing. Please confirm if I have got it well: the rumor is that mclaren and maybe rbr are trying to use the peltier effect to improve cooling and use the heat extracted from the engine/rads to accelerate the outside flow (that would be using Rayleigh effect I think?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_flow

But the main problem is bad efficiently and how get independet electrical source whith no performance lost?

[ianwit]

Just throwing some thought's out there. There's plenty of waste heat from the engine, brakes and KERS, it just needs to be directed to the right place I can't see the need to generate heat differentials they are in abundance already, aren't they? The ebd was a way of generating heat and directing it so why not redirect heat that's constantly being generated?

[PhillipM]

It wasn't just heat though, the kinetic energy in the exhaust stream had most of the effect.

[MIKEY_!]

Meredith effect rads plus this electric heating business could be the way to go.