COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

[Richard]

nine months from the race?

India is hot too. According to wiki India gets hotter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Texas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Delhi

[munudeges]

Since when has 10th Jan to 18th Nov been 9 months?

Richard, they do not have until 18th November. They need to complete at least a couple of months beforehand to then iron out problems and perform required tests. You've then got to account for inevitable delays, and as X says, it is a very hot and inhospitable place to work during the summer.

If they do by some miracle complete this, which I very much doubt, the race will be off the calendar not long after. No one, and I mean no one, has thought this through and it's pretty obvious to see.

You're painting over some very obvious problems here with a lot of minutiae.

[Richard]

Sorry mun- you need to re-read the posts. The comment was "9 months before the race".

I'm simply showing the relative progress of track in relation to the race date.

[Pup]

Uh, yeah. Do you have any reason not to believe them other than "I heard that so-and-so said"?

2 critical work stoppages, for starters, followed by what I'm told by trusted friends who know.

Nothing I've seen or heard in months lends any credibility to COTA's word, and they certainly have done nothing at all to alter that perception with their silent treatment.

They don't owe you a weekly press conference, and how do you define the work stoppages as 'critical', if they are still on schedule? Do you have any evidence that they aren't?

So, let's look at the evidence we have that they are behind schedule or underfunded.

A. Hearsay from a guy who has a thing against COTA because they beat up his buddy Tavo.

B. Wild speculation from another guy who will jump into any forum that gives him a chance to spew anti-american garbage.

C. Complex theories of intrigue from a third guy who is well known for torturing facts to feed his hard-on for authority figures.

D. There is no D.

Not much to work with, there, but do I applaud all your efforts.

[Pup]

Anyone who thinks that Texas heat is an issue for construction knows nothing about construction.

[Richard]

PML - you shift the goalposts with every post in your struggle to say why progress in USA will be harder than India. First you say they have less time because you miscount 9 months to the race, then you knock some months off for commissioning, then it's the heat, then it's the obesity of Americans. Do make your mind up.

I agree the politics will be the pitfall for this project, but in construction terms it is not difficult as we can see in the comparison with India.

[Pup]

Doh...Not good.

Elroy Road widening won't happen before 2012 race. The hangup? Take a wild guess.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula ... 91924.html

Why is Suttle giving interviews and calling himself an "F1 attorney"? Isn't he Tavo's attorney?

HS, perhaps you can shed light on that?

[hairy_scotsman]

For comparison, here are pics of the India circuit on 12th June, 4 months before the race. I'd say Austin can finish the job on time, especially as US construction capability is more advanced than India (I've worked on projects in both countries).

To put it another way, Austin has 6 months to be in the same state as the India pics below. Easy from a construction point of view, as long as bickering politics doesn't mess it up.

Where India was concerned they had a political commitment to spend whatever it took, and commit whatever resources it took, to get it finished. That is nowhere near being the case in Austin.

2 things...

---- Sure, on the construction side of things, this is can be done assuming a combination of:
(a) the financing exists to complete the project in a short time, and
(b) those with control of that money are willing to spend what it takes to get it done on a tight schedule.

---- There's MUCH more to getting ready for the race than "simply" getting the track built, and I know for a fact that some of these things simply are not getting done.

The story about Elroy Road above is just one example. That should have been settled long ago. There was well more than enough time to get the expansion of Elroy Road done. Instead, the investors dropped the ball yet again in yet another quibble over money that will likely end up costing them much more down the road, at least in terms of headaches and egg on their faces if not in actual money.

These guys just can't seem to get out of their own way.

[Richard]

x - you're misreading my posts. As a construction project it is still realistic. That's not loyalty, just experience and a comparison with India at a similar stage.

This isn't like USF1 in terms of construction. The USF1 equivalent would have pictures of a green field with one backhoe excavator and a chap with a cement mixer.

You and mun are quite valid about the danger of the politics messing it up. The politics and bickering have been an utter joke. Stick to that as your target and watch it drag the construction to a halt, but you need to wait a few more months before you claim that scalp.

Cash is most likely to be the stumbling block and if that happens, the construction programme is likely to be on track when the bank manager switches off the funding.

ps - that access road looks to be the current weak spot because it needs agreement with a third party. Even so, they'll only need 3 or 4 months to get that built. So keep your powder dry until July or August

[hairy_scotsman]

Since when has 10th Jan to 18th Nov been 9 months?

Unless they wish to put the final touch on the day before MrE arrives, it's 9 months, working in the Texas sun at that. I agree with mun this is an utter joke and from what I've learned from construction efficiency in the deep south...

I agree they're pushing the schedule, but being in the south has little to do with any lack of construction efficiency, and we usually have the advantage of better weather. Sadly, weeks of beautiful, dry weather were lost in the stoppages and they can't be bought back with any amount of money. It rained much of December. It rained last week, and now it's raining again and there was no construction at all yesterday. Not sure about today.

For the record, Texas is not "the deep south". It's Texas...and working in the hot Texas sun isn't a problem. They go like hell in the heat. It's the rain that stands to be the biggest problem.

Perhaps it is so, but all my xperience tells me that indians are rather well adjusted to is, while obese americans are not.

Then you are hopelessly clueless in this regard. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the truth. We're plenty used to the heat here. It's where we live. Do you think we simply don't get anything done from June through September? To the contrary, those are our most productive months. Most fun, too.

No one, and I mean no one, has thought this through and it's pretty obvious to see.

I think it's pretty clear that nobody at COTA now who's in a position to do anything about it has thought it through very well. But there are people who did see the big picture very well. Some of them still do, but the foot-dragging and nickel & diming by the investors has really shot this thing right squarely in its foot.

Cash is most likely to be the stumbling block and if that happens, the construction programme is likely to be on track when the bank manager switches off the funding.

Absolutely.

ps - that access road looks to be the current weak spot because it needs agreement with a third party. Even so, they'll only need 3 or 4 months to get that built. So keep your powder dry until July or August

The problem with that road is that there's a creek running under it, so there's a bridge there that needs to be completely rebuilt and expanded to 4 lanes from 2. It's not just important from a traffic standpoint, but from the perspective that it's needed for the extra dedicated lane it would provide for emergency response to/from events.

[Richard]

How do they build anything is built in the rainy UK! It is amusing on a site in the Middle East when they stop work if there is a hint of rain, while the EU folk stay out to enjoy the cool air.

Rain shouldn't be a problem for the structures now that they're out of the ground. The ground works will be vulnerable but they can be easily scaled up with resources when the weather improves - compared to the superstructure where different trades trip over each other.

[hairy_scotsman]

They don't owe you a weekly press conferenc

Never said they owed me a thing, but they do nothing at all to control the conversation or to dispell the negatives surrounding them. If that's how they wanna roll, great, but it's already hurt their image, even among big F1 fans.

how do you define the work stoppages as 'critical', if they are still on schedule? Do you have any evidence that they aren't?

Two work stoppages that cost weeks of very dry weather working days in a very time-critical project. Pretty simple. Evidence? Nothing I can link to, but they're behind on the vertical (buildings) and roughly on sched with the track from what I hear. I hear a lot of things from a lot of people who are in position to know. It isn't difficult to do.

So, let's look at the evidence we have that they are behind schedule or underfunded.

A. Hearsay from a guy who has a thing against COTA because they beat up his buddy Tavo.

Tavo's not my "buddy" and I have several sources. I also have no agenda against COTA. Look at my posting history here and elsewhere. Nobody was happier to hear about this project than I was when it was announced, and NOBODY has disseminated more positive COTA press around internet forums, Facebook, and Twitter than I have. Nobody. Especially not COTA, and it's not even close.

To this day, when good news drops about the track I'm still one of the first people, if not THE first person who gets it out there, usually ahead of both COTA and the Austin American Statesman. I've been to countless planning meetings and lobbied the Austin City Council with emails & letters, and even addressed them in session once or twice supporting this facility in regard to very important votes. My buddy & I led the grass-roots movements associated with those votes.

Remember when we outnumbered the naysayers 15 to 1 at City Council meetings, or when the council's live video server crashed during the big meetings after I sent the link out all over the world to F1 fans from the UK to Russia to Latvia to Asia to the UAE? That gave the council quite an impression indeed. Nobody wants more than I do for this thing to succeed and be the best circuit with the best racing. My great concern is that that's not going to happen.

Look, it doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. I know I'm bringing the truth. That's all I need to know and I'm sure most people here can see that as well. If they can't, then I can't help them.

[hairy_scotsman]

Doh...Not good.

Elroy Road widening won't happen before 2012 race. The hangup? Take a wild guess.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula ... 91924.html

Why is Suttle giving interviews and calling himself an "F1 attorney"? Isn't he Tavo's attorney?

HS, perhaps you can shed light on that?

He's not Hellmund's attorney. He's been onboard (with Armbrust & Brown) since the very beginning of COTA as their attorney.

http://circuitoftheamericas.com/partners.html

The news media refer to him as the "F1 Attorney" because they're clueless and use the term "F1 this" or "F1 that" re: anything associated with COTA.

News media is crappy and worthless around the world. Ours is no different.

[hairy_scotsman]

How do they build anything is built in the rainy UK! It is amusing on a site in the Middle East when they stop work if there is a hint of rain, while the EU folk stay out to enjoy the cool air.

Rain shouldn't be a problem for the structures now that they're out of the ground. The ground works will be vulnerable but they can be easily scaled up with resources when the weather improves - compared to the superstructure where different trades trip over each other.

Most of them aren't out of the ground yet...Check the photos. Every photo of building construction is of one end of the pit building. That's because that's all there is.

As for the problems with the rain, well, it's all about what you're used to, isn't it? UK construction crews are used to working with wet conditions, and they're geared for it as well. However, I'll bet they'd be hard-pressed to be productive in our 100+ degree weather for 4 months out of the year.

[xpensive]

I wonder how many individuals involved in this project, including those obese wasps in a hard hat, which I usually see huffing and puffing when they are asked to displace their corpus a few meters without air-con if it's above 80, have any possible xperience of such a project and have any knowledge of F1?

How can you consider building the track, while leaving the access roads without attention, is this a Monty Python sketch?