McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

[raymondu999]

Anyone else noticed that Scarbs tweeted a french report that the 27 already has surpassed the downforce levels of the 26? Is this a surprise or expected?

Lies or mistranslation.

There is no way 2012 cars will have even close to the PEAK down-force of 2011. This is due to the lack of the blown diffuser and otherwise similar regulations for the rest of the car.

The "basic" downforce of the 2012 car, that is, the downforce without blown diffuser will be higher than the basic downforce of 2011

Agreed - though that may be in fact what Scarbs is saying

[beelsebob]

Anyone else noticed that Scarbs tweeted a french report that the 27 already has surpassed the downforce levels of the 26? Is this a surprise or expected?

Lies or mistranslation.

There is no way 2012 cars will have even close to the PEAK down-force of 2011. This is due to the lack of the blown diffuser and otherwise similar regulations for the rest of the car.

The "basic" downforce of the 2012 car, that is, the downforce without blown diffuser will be higher than the basic downforce of 2011

Agreed - though that may be in fact what Scarbs is saying

To be honest, if their 2012 car didn't already have more downforce than the 2011 minus exhaust blowing, they'd be in serious trouble.

[Ozan]

To be honest, if their 2012 car didn't already have more downforce than the 2011 minus exhaust blowing, they'd be in serious trouble.

that is what's gonna trouble redbull and mclaren this year.

[volarchico]

Are there any regs against using electricity to generate a plasma jet to trip the flow on the rear wing similar to the f-duct? I understand that DRS dumps way more drag/DF than the f-duct, but the concept could still be useful in other areas if it is allowed. You just need about 10kV or so to create the plasma.

[beelsebob]

Are there any regs against using electricity to generate a plasma jet to trip the flow on the rear wing similar to the f-duct? I understand that DRS dumps way more drag/DF than the f-duct, but the concept could still be useful in other areas if it is allowed. You just need about 10kV or so to create the plasma.

The issue is not so much with how you stall the wing, it's to do with how you trigger it. The driver isn't allowed to do anything to influence aero.

[allstaruk08]

could you use a speed sensor that turns it on and off ?

[beelsebob]

could you use a speed sensor that turns it on and off ?

If you want it on in Eau Rouge, sure.

[MIKEY_!]

GPS then? Or just alter the trigger speed? I'm pretty sure this is illegal otherwise they wouldn't have needed the driver to trigger the F-duct.

[aleks_ader]

Are there any regs against using electricity to generate a plasma jet to trip the flow on the rear wing similar to the f-duct? I understand that DRS dumps way more drag/DF than the f-duct, but the concept could still be useful in other areas if it is allowed. You just need about 10kV or so to create the plasma.

Very good thinking, with my idea mouting Peltier unit&Seebeck effect (make electricity) on exhaust you could acieve that "plasma" effect..

But trigerring... hmm all the time? Just depend on rpms => lover rpms => lover temperature difference => slighty smaller eletrical curent => Smaler plasma gain and inversed od higher rpms!

[MIKEY_!]

Hmmm...
Using a flexible piece of bodywork to act as a simple switch could work. The bodywork would flex at a given speed and thus allow the two sides of the switch to make contact, completing the circuit. It then gives the stalling only above a certain air speed.

Will there be any problems with the system not being completed for much of the lap? And how do we stop it shorting as the switch is almost but not quite in the on position?

BTW we are going to seriously electrocute pit crews with this one!!!

[PlatinumZealot]

Are there any regs against using electricity to generate a plasma jet to trip the flow on the rear wing similar to the f-duct? I understand that DRS dumps way more drag/DF than the f-duct, but the concept could still be useful in other areas if it is allowed. You just need about 10kV or so to create the plasma.

A plasma jet? As similar to a plasma cutter nozzle? It should be possible.. A gun shooting out plasma, like "plasma guns" in movies is very difficult though, because even after you manage to create the plasma you have to maintain it in a hot atmosphere and an inert atmosphere. But lets say you don't really need the charged particles and you only want really hot air... you could design a nozzle in similar style to plasma cutter minus the shielding gas.

You use the KERS generator to this.. You create a really powerful electric arc and blow compressed air created from a compressor on the engine through this arc. The high temperature of the arc will heat the air more than the exhaust could. over 2000C.. The electrodes can be tungsten. This arrangement will take a significant amount of power from the engine - maybe 5kW or more, but it will be very useful where you don't need maximum power from the engine.

[Shrieker]

Wow. I see there are some crazy 'red alert style' ideas floating around lol. If they hold any truth (plasma thingy) and they manage to make it work consistently, hats go off.

[raymondu999]

Wow. I see there are some crazy 'red alert style' ideas floating around lol. If they hold any truth (plasma thingy) and they manage to make it work consistently, hats go off.

You never know. Yuri might replace Paddy Lowe

[ell66]

Anyone else noticed that Scarbs tweeted a french report that the 27 already has surpassed the downforce levels of the 26? Is this a surprise or expected?

Lies or mistranslation.

There is no way 2012 cars will have even close to the PEAK down-force of 2011. This is due to the lack of the blown diffuser and otherwise similar regulations for the rest of the car.

The "basic" downforce of the 2012 car, that is, the downforce without blown diffuser will be higher than the basic downforce of 2011

You talk as if your in the know, when really your just guessing.
The exhausts are an integral part of the car, so when they say this car has more DF than last years then thats what they mean. Whether thats true or now, who knows? It would be a difficult task, but I also heard the RB8 was up there if not pass last years DF to, all rumours though at this stage.

[Richard]

ell66 - You're suggesting that after deleting the EBD they now have more downforce than they had with EBD?

Anyway, every team issues PR saying their new car will be better than last year, but that doesn't always turn out to be true. We'll not know until the first qualification of the season. Until then it is all PR spin.