COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

[WhiteBlue]

I have to disagree here. Hellmund and Epstein have been on since the beginning. McCombs is brought on board. The thing goes south. Bernie jettisons Helmund and cuts a deal with Epstein and McCombs. ...

As a reminder, Bernie rescinded his deal with Hellmund. COTA did not (and could not) force Hellmund out. Bernie discovered something and cut his losses with Hellmund. Time will tell on what that something was.

This reads like pure fantasy to me. Hellmund has worked on the scheme for more than six years. Epstein by all public sources joined this venture much later. Btw his involvement was published at the same time as McCombs. The most likely entry of Epstein was the time when Hellmund came across the current site for the location of the circuit. Epstein controls a company called Wanderingc Investors LLC. That is most likely the company holding property of the land (wandering creek) the circuit is build on. That property is also likely to be used as security for raising finance. If I remember correctly Hellmund claimed to have selected the site in 2009. That would be four years from the begin of the project.

Ecclestone has published a statement saying that he has and had no problems with Hellmund at all. He cancelled the contract because Hellmund did not manage to get the first fee financed by Epstein. Apparently Epstein refused a small finance period of some weeks for the first $25m to bridge a gap between the pay out by METF and the due date by Ecclestone. We know that at the same time Hellmund and Epstein had differences about the right strategy for the business. The nature of the disagreement is unknown. We also know that the failure to pay that fee in time triggered the METF to withdraw their finance of the first race fee for one year. And we know that the contract duration which was initially 10 years is now shortened by some years. The rest is just some very imaginative interpretation from you. It has no resemblance with the known facts.

It could be as simple as the disagreement was about the length of the contract. Hellmund may have thought that the race fees would still go up for the next ten years and that it would be beneficial to get the METF money for a maximum time. Epstein could have thought that the constant rise of the fees would be unlikely and preferred a shorter contract due to that opinion. I find that much more likely than your strange story.

[hairy_scotsman]

Everything is moving forward now. COTA updates their website, facebook or pushes items to the media a few times a week (we all see that b/c HS thankfully keeps us apprised); this did NOT occur when Hellmund was on board.

OK Bob. That's really just a joke. The website has only been updated once or twice in MONTHS...the last being when COTA finally paid Bernie. Oh yeah, there have been a few photo updates, but the last of those was 2.5 months ago on 11/1/11.

I outdo the COTA twitter feed (@circuitamericas) by miles with my feed (@Austin_F1). I bring relevant stories and promotion, and at least 2x more photos. Seriously, 5 tweets in the last 3 weeks is pathetic considering the number of people around the country and around the world who ask me and COTA literally every day for more information, you know, like how much tickets will cost and when they'll go on sale.

I beat them by a day on the story about the 2012 USGP leading Orbitz.com to name Austin one of the top 3 travel destinations in the world for 2012. We beat them getting the news out on their latest hire (Farrera) by...get this...6 DAYS. Hell, I even beat them by half a day with the Statesman story above. So they fed that to the media and then forgot to promote it? That was the first news story of COTA running crews through the night. Our Facebook page (Friends of Formula 1 Austin Texas) had PHOTOS of that night work up on 12/30 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater , http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... permPage=1 .

Speaking of Facebook, we're killing COTA there, too. They've made 6 posts on their page in the last 14 days. We've outposted them on their own page in that span. People desperately want info, so we bring them what we can. People ask literally every day about tickets. COTA says nothing at all, not even "Thanks for your interest..we're working on it as hard as we can!!".

Seriously, you have to be kidding. We are a couple of unpaid amateurs and we're absolutely running rings around COTA in terms of PR, promotion, and keeping people informed.

They are MUCH more transparent now.

In what way? Merely saying it doesn't make it so.

It seems like a new team is running it. As best as i can tell, the only difference is Hellmund is gone.

Really? Seems like the same-old same-old to us on the outside looking in. Maybe you can tell me how things are so different. How's the Emergency Plan coming along? Tickets? Logistics? Operations? Customer Relations? Team & VIP Hospitality? Content? Security? Last time I counted there were more major operational areas than folks in the office to handle them.

Bernie jettisons Helmund and cuts a deal with Epstein and McCombs....As a reminder, Bernie rescinded his deal with Hellmund. COTA did not (and could not) force Hellmund out.

COTA forced Bernie to terminate Hellmund's contract by not paying. He didn't rescind his deal with Hellmund. Voiding due to non-payment was part of the deal.

Bernie discovered something and cut his losses with Hellmund. Time will tell on what that something was.

Yeah...you keep saying that, both here and elsewhere. Two months ago we were supposedly going to hear all of this in a few days. Right. So the news is still a few days away?

[hairy_scotsman]

The Statesman just posted 14 construction photos on its Facebook page (Formula 1 Austin): http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 490&type=1

@xpensive: My only "agenda" from the very beginning of this has been to bring people the news about this circuit, promote it and Austin/Central Texas, and help in whatever way I can to help make sure it gets built. I'm certain that you or anyone else would be hard-pressed to find anyone outside the paid employees and founders of that organization who's given more of their free time, attention, and energy to the cause.

I post plenty about general topics in F1, but I do so mostly on one board. My efforts since the track was announced have led me to many other boards seeking grassroots assistance, etc. I cannot make all the posts I make on all of those boards AND make general topic posts on all of them as well.

[strad]

Pipes" could mean piles, or if the articles really does mean pipes then foundations must be finished. You don't put the pop ups in before you trample over the site digging foundations!

First thing ya do is lay the various underground pipes and conduits...then lay the foundation..in between ya just have pipes sticking up out of the ground.
I figure the construction company has a deadline and if they fall too far behind will be paying extra workers and for overtime.
Up the way from me they are building some apartments and since they are behind, they worked New Years day...If necessary to avoid fines, they will pull out all the stops.

[Bob S.]

This reads like pure fantasy to me. Hellmund has worked on the scheme for more than six years.

Ok, sorry. i hadnt seen that anywhere in the press. YOu must either be close to him and watched him work on it, or read it somewhere i missed. Very sorry (you seem to be getting a tad testy here, that's why i am apologizing so much...i really didnt mean to pick a scab!)

Epstein by all public sources joined this venture much later. Btw his involvement was published at the same time as McCombs. The most likely entry of Epstein was the time when Hellmund came across the current site for the location of the circuit. Epstein controls a company called Wanderingc Investors LLC. That is most likely the company holding property of the land (wandering creek) the circuit is build on. That property is also likely to be used as security for raising finance. If I remember correctly Hellmund claimed to have selected the site in 2009. That would be four years from the begin of the project.

Again, very sorry. I must have missed the Wanderingc Investors LLC information. This too is interesting. What you are saying is Hellmund worked for 2 years and then Epstein was brought on board, b/c he had the land that would be used to secure financing and where the circuit would be built. Right?

Ecclestone has published a statement saying that he has and had no problems with Hellmund at all.

Yeah, but we all know here, Bernie says a lot of things. Up until he signed the deal with Epstein he was saying NO WAY would there be a deal. I dont read too much into his statements. They are all statements that are purposeful and intended for something. Maybe he didnt want to hurt Hellmund's feelings. Hellmund is the one who kept saying he was SO close to Bernie...you never heard Bernie throw that out.

He cancelled the contract because Hellmund did not manage to get the first fee financed by Epstein. Apparently Epstein refused a small finance period of some weeks for the first $25m to bridge a gap between the pay out by METF and the due date by Ecclestone. We know that at the same time Hellmund and Epstein had differences about the right strategy for the business. The nature of the disagreement is unknown. We also know that the failure to pay that fee in time triggered the METF to withdraw their finance of the first race fee for one year. And we know that the contract duration which was initially 10 years is now shortened by some years. The rest is just some very imaginative interpretation from you. It has no resemblance with the known facts.

Ok, now i sorta think you are making up "facts", have a strange story or you are VERY close with Hellmund. I say that b/c NONE of this is reported. It has no sources. Now combine that with what Hellmund said about buying his partners out. If he could buy his partners out, and he held the rights, why didn't he pay Bernie? He obviously had the money. I think it would take a lot more than $25M to buy out Epstein and McCombs!

[hairy_scotsman]

Ok, sorry. i hadnt seen that anywhere in the press. YOu must either be close to him and watched him work on it, or read it somewhere i missed.

It's pretty much common knowledge.

I must have missed the Wanderingc Investors LLC information. This too is interesting.

It was noted is several articles in the weeks after the initial announcement.

What you are saying is Hellmund worked for 2 years and then Epstein was brought on board, b/c he had the land that would be used to secure financing and where the circuit would be built. Right?

I'm pretty sure he worked on it longer than that before getting with Epstein. Everything I've heard indicates he's worked on this at least since 2004 and spent years before that building the relationships and experience necessary and getting in position.

Yeah, but we all know here, Bernie says a lot of things. Up until he signed the deal with Epstein he was saying NO WAY would there be a deal. I dont read too much into his statements. They are all statements that are purposeful and intended for something. Maybe he didnt want to hurt Hellmund's feelings. Hellmund is the one who kept saying he was SO close to Bernie...you never heard Bernie throw that out.

Ecclestone: "I’ve known Tavo since he was born."

http://www.discoveryaustin.com/f1-initial-interview.asp

I saw another once where Bernie said (PP) "I've known Tavo since before he was born", referring to knowing Tavo's parents when his mom was carrying him.

Ok, now i sorta think you are making up "facts", have a strange story or you are VERY close with Hellmund. I say that b/c NONE of this is reported.

Actually, MOST if not ALL of that has been reported and is common knowledge to most who've been paying attention. LOL. Try & keep up.

If he could buy his partners out, and he held the rights, why didn't he pay Bernie? He obviously had the money. I think it would take a lot more than $25M to buy out Epstein and McCombs!

He apparently had backers to buy COTA out. We don't know if he got these backers before or after the rights deal was voided, but why should he pay Bernie himself? The only reason he brought the other investors on in the first place is because he needed their money and their ability to pay.

[Bob S.]

OK Bob. That's really just a joke. The website has only been updated once or twice in MONTHS...the last being when COTA finally paid Bernie. Oh yeah, there have been a few photo updates, but the last of those was 2.5 months ago on 11/1/11.

WOW! You ok? I was trying to give you credit for keeping us up to date...and you just whacked me!! Just a cursory review of your posts shows you posted COTA photos 4 times in 5 weeks (since Hellmund left and this was back on track). The only reason i say they are COTA photos is b/c each time you stated in your post the photos came from COTA's website or FB page. I am sorry for giving you credit that apparently you dont want??? Very confusing.

I outdo the COTA twitter feed (@circuitamericas) by miles with my feed (@Austin_F1). I bring relevant stories and promotion, and at least 2x more photos. Seriously, 5 tweets in the last 3 weeks is pathetic considering the number of people around the country and around the world who ask me and COTA literally every day for more information, you know, like how much tickets will cost and when they'll go on sale.

I beat them by a day on the story about the 2012 USGP leading Orbitz.com to name Austin one of the top 3 travel destinations in the world for 2012. We beat them getting the news out on their latest hire (Farrera) by...get this...6 DAYS. Hell, I even beat them by half a day with the Statesman story above. So they fed that to the media and then forgot to promote it? That was the first news story of COTA running crews through the night. Our Facebook page (Friends of Formula 1 Austin Texas) had PHOTOS of that night work up on 12/30 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater , http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... permPage=1 .

Speaking of Facebook, we're killing COTA there, too. They've made 6 posts on their page in the last 14 days. We've outposted them on their own page in that span. People desperately want info, so we bring them what we can. People ask literally every day about tickets. COTA says nothing at all, not even "Thanks for your interest..we're working on it as hard as we can!!".

Seriously, you have to be kidding. We are a couple of unpaid amateurs and we're absolutely running rings around COTA in terms of PR, promotion, and keeping people informed.

That's great!!! Again, another reason i was trying to give you credit. You are doing all of that, and it is greatly appreciated!! Truly. Apparently, my statement of COTA starting to be more transparent and update us more has upset you. I apologize. I wasnt saying they are perfect. I was just saying they are showing us a lot more (4 updates in 5 weeks is about 4 more than when Hellmund was heading the project).

Based on all of this, you should speak with COTA about replacing their army of consultants (it sounds like they have Suttle as a lobbyist, another guy pops up from time to time speaking with the neighbors (Salinus???) and their PR guy (Hahn?) and gal (i cannot remember her name, but she is on some videos posted talking about the sight).

Really? Seems like the same-old same-old to us on the outside looking in. Maybe you can tell me how things are so different. How's the Emergency Plan coming along? Tickets? Logistics? Operations? Customer Relations? Team & VIP Hospitality? Content? Security? Last time I counted there were more major operational areas than folks in the office to handle them.

More the reason you should go work for them!!!!

COTA forced Bernie to terminate Hellmund's contract by not paying. He didn't rescind his deal with Hellmund. Voiding due to non-payment was part of the deal.

Uhhh, now this flies in the face of every media outlet who covered this. They all said Bernie terminate/canceled/rescinded/some other verb the contract with Hellmund. Unless you have inside information, i am not sure how you can say "Bernie didnt rescind his deal with Hellmund."

And, as i said to WhiteBlue (or BlueWhite), if Hellmund had the money (he claimed he tried to buy out his partners, why didnt Hellmund just pay Bernie??? Why did COTA have to do it. Hellmund said he was chairman of COTA, so BAMM, chairman pays Bernie and the deal is done...unless there are some mistruths from Hellmund or you have bad intel. I have no idea. I just see some holes in what you are saying.

This line is the funniest of them all (at least to all of us who follow F1): "COTA forced Bernie to" STOP! Who here believes COTA FORCED Bernie to do ANYTHING?!?!?

[Bob S.]

[...]

I agree with xpensive regarding his comment about hairy scotsman: On the other hand, one can wonder how someone obviously uninterested in any other thread on the forum or in F1 as a whole, while at the same time is clearly being a messenger with an agenda, is allowed to go on like a spokesperson?

HS – I think many would agree with this very fair request: Can you please source your comments when you say: “It’s pretty much common knowledge”, “It was noted is several articles in the weeks after the initial announcement.” and “MOST if not ALL of that has been reported and is common knowledge to most who've been paying attention”

I ask because I just did a google search, and I did not find a single story regarding: “Wandering Investors LLC” (you said “It was noted is several articles in the weeks after the initial announcement.”)

In addition, you said it was common knowledge Hellmund worked on this for 6 years…then you said he has worked on it since 2004. So is it common knowledge or not??

[xpensive]

...
In addition, you said it was common knowledge Hellmund worked on this for 6 years…then you said he has worked on it since 2004. So is it common knowledge or not??

This is another eerie similarity between this seemingly less than perfectly planned operation and USF1;
Beavis and Butthead also claimed they had been working on their F1 team for 5 years, yet it was disclosed as pitifully unplanned and unfinanced.

[...]

[WhiteBlue]

At viewtopic.php?p=172498#p172498 , you will read that Tilke first visited the Wandering Creek site in 2010. This must have been shortly after Hellmund got involved with Epstein who seems to represent the Wandering Creek investors. So placing Epstein's involvement in 2009 can't be too far off the mark.

[...] People who read this thread for more than a year will not be surprised that Hairy Scotsman and myself are often on the same page. He is by far the most active fan on the internet with his local support group and I am the original poster of this thread. Between us two we have probably posted 95% of the original news and sources that were contributed to this thread. [...]

[Steven]

Guys, can we stick to the Austin GP and not make this thread turn into a "Europe vs USA" or "I'm a better member than you" match?
Some of the most off-topic posts were removed and some warnings handed out. I hope that won't be necessary anymore.

[hairy_scotsman]

WOW! You ok? I was trying to give you credit for keeping us up to date...and you just whacked me!! Just a cursory review of your posts shows you posted COTA photos 4 times in 5 weeks (since Hellmund left and this was back on track). The only reason i say they are COTA photos is b/c each time you stated in your post the photos came from COTA's website or FB page. I am sorry for giving you credit that apparently you dont want??? Very confusing.

Yeah, I'm OK, and if you were actually trying to give me credit, that's great, fine, whatever, but I haven't been doing this for credit. If I had been, I'd have stopped long ago. My apologies. But yeah, saying that COTA is updating their site more than when Hellmund was there (they aren't), or that they're doing a good job on FB, etc is what set me off. Their work there has been nothing more than a bad joke, especially in the last couple of months when they should be doing everything possible to repair their image with fans around the world.

Based on all of this, you should speak with COTA about replacing their army of consultants (it sounds like they have Suttle as a lobbyist, another guy pops up from time to time speaking with the neighbors (Salinus???) and their PR guy (Hahn?) and gal (i cannot remember her name, but she is on some videos posted talking about the sight).

I know all of them. Suttle does a lot. Trey Salinas and Jeff Hahn both work PR, but from different angles, and they are great, but they can only do what they're told. I don't know who runs the twitter & FB feeds, but the same goes for them. I believe Ali Putnam wears many hats and is invaluable to that organization. I'm not denigrating any of these folks' abilities in any way whatever. I question the direction they're being given that leads to this result.

More the reason you should go work for them!!!!

No thanks. Not now, not from what I've heard from there.

Uhhh, now this flies in the face of every media outlet who covered this. They all said Bernie terminate/canceled/rescinded/some other verb the contract with Hellmund. Unless you have inside information, i am not sure how you can say "Bernie didnt rescind his deal with Hellmund."

He didn't rescind the deal. He merely enforced its terms. He did cut Tavo loose, because of non-payment, and said as much. So, if COTA had the money when Bernie told them repeatedly they were late, why didn't the COTA investors pay up? That was their whole reason for existing in that group.

And, as i said to WhiteBlue (or BlueWhite), if Hellmund had the money (he claimed he tried to buy out his partners, why didnt Hellmund just pay Bernie??? Why did COTA have to do it. Hellmund said he was chairman of COTA, so BAMM, chairman pays Bernie and the deal is done...unless there are some mistruths from Hellmund or you have bad intel. I have no idea. I just see some holes in what you are saying.

No holes. It was the responsibilty of COTA as a project to pay Bernie.

[hairy_scotsman]

[...]

I agree with xpensive regarding his comment about hairy scotsman: On the other hand, one can wonder how someone obviously uninterested in any other thread on the forum or in F1 as a whole, while at the same time is clearly being a messenger with an agenda, is allowed to go on like a spokesperson?

LOL...whatever.

HS – I think many would agree with this very fair request: Can you please source your comments when you say: “It’s pretty much common knowledge”, “It was noted is several articles in the weeks after the initial announcement.” and “MOST if not ALL of that has been reported and is common knowledge to most who've been paying attention”

Every time I come here or anywhere else with a story I source it. I'm not going back to look it up every single time I speak indirectly about it. I've quoted links ad nauseum about everything we've talked about here. If you don't know that, then you simply haven't been paying attention.

I ask because I just did a google search, and I did not find a single story regarding: “Wandering Investors LLC” (you said “It was noted is several articles in the weeks after the initial announcement.”)

I just entered "Wandering Creek Investments". 8 of the 10 results on that page referred to Epstein's company and/or the F1 project here.

In addition, you said it was common knowledge Hellmund worked on this for 6 years…then you said he has worked on it since 2004. So is it common knowledge or not??

When did I say that? I merely agreed when WB said "Hellmund has worked on the scheme for more than six years."

I said "Everything I've heard indicates he's worked on this at least since 2004". Where's the contradiction?

Attention to detail, man.

[Bob S.]

Merely an fyi, but “Wandering Investors LLC” (what WB said) is different than "Wandering Creek Investments" (what you later said, after saying Wandering Investors LLC was noted in several articles). I mention it only because some are getting loose on the "facts" while doing their best to push a point of view.

My original post on this subject focused on one point: i have noticed change from COTA since early Dec. They are granting more interviews and more access to the site, they are working on a new website (Hellmund had a vendor that was s-l-o-w), their FB page and Twitter feed are more lively and updated much more frequently. All this was was a notice of change...positive change. Then the personal attacks were sent my way!!

Regardless, IMO there have been many changes since the COTA investors signed the new contract with Bernie. IMO

[Jeffsvilleusa]

More like Wandering Investors LOL