P.U.R.E Appointment

[munudeges]

It's already been, and is being, discussed JET. Like I said, they're clearly not coming in as a replacement to Cosworth given Pollock's existing statemennts and I don't know where you pulled Williams from. This operation is not going to be wanting to hang around at the back of the grid. Simple.

[munudeges]

A tailor made engine would fit Newey's aim perfectly, Renault has far too many customers, he wouldn't want to share his perfection with anyone.

A la John Barnard? I can see the attraction but how does that set them up with Renault for the next five years?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

As you have lambasted Mercedes for being 4th, who would take up the offer?

McLaren. Unlikely for reasons I have said. To ditch mercedes and go with a start up venture? Maybe in 2015 when the unit has proved itself in the back of a umm... Oh I don't know.... Williams?

Red bull? Hmm maybe but would they sacrifice their manufacterer backed status for an unknown quantity.

[xpensive]

@mun;
Don't know how RBR's relation with Renault is formulated, but I do know that McLaren had multi-year deals with both Peugeot and Fernando Alonso, which still were anulled after only one year. And yes, I do have this notion that Newey
and Barnard have or had a similar approach to things, an engineering attitude void of compromises.

@JET;
No turbo unit is yet proven or even xist, why I belive you can say that the risk and possibilities are fairly leveled,
morover, there's plenty of time to evaluate the development progress according to an agreed performance criteria.
Besides, I doubt if Ron wants to deal with Norb for a day longer than he has to.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

X

These units do exist and are in the process of being fired up.
So McLaren set the criteria and everything will be fine? I'm not so sure.

As for Dennis and haug, how do you know?

[munudeges]

A start up venture....... That's just the point JET. With the people involved and the backing they seem to have this isn't just some 'start up venture' or unknown quantity that fell off the back of a truck. Like I said, given Pollock's statements about not caring if they get any customers or not this is not a Cosworth replacement nor is it something that exists to go into the back of a Williams. I do wonder where you pick up your logical reasoning sometimes.

Big Ron is not going to put up with Mercedes a day longer than he has to. McLaren will sweet-talk them for the next year and a bit but they're not stupid enough to take a brand new engine design from a supplier in a relationship where, as a team, they do not have the whip-hand in the relationship.

As for manufacturer backing, I think we can safely say that PURE has it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The fact is PURE is a start up venture.

[xpensive]

Give it a name, but I believe the collective technical competence of this outfit is second to none, while their financial muscle seems to be short of nothing. With manufacturer backing from Peugeot and a 2014 engine technology, based on limited fuel-flow and low boost, fairly new to all competitors, I see little reason why they should be beheld as rookies at all?

In that context, I'm pretty certain that Ron would take his chances with a tailored design for his chassis engineers,
than settle for whatever MHPE decides to offer him after MGP/AMG has had their ways.

[munudeges]

Call it what you like, but this is a serious outfit once you look beyond Pollock and look at people like Gilles Simon, now with manufacturer backing that they can't hide.

What were Mercedes's credentials around 1994/1995 I wonder, just to spin the double standards around a bit?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

None which is why it took them 3 years to win.


And what double standards are you talking about? Seriously you need to accept that PURE are a start up operation who have never raced in F1.
This is a fact.

Yes Gilles Simon is working for them, but in any area of expertise it is wise to employ people whom have worked in the industry.
Mercedes Renault and Ferrari all have systems and procedures in place through years of EXPERIENCE.

PURE cannot expect to beat them from the first race and if they do, theyre in for a rude awakening IMO.
Even VW couldnt stomach it.....

[xpensive]

With the 2014 rules, I firmly believe that everybody will be newbies in a way. When the turbo-era of the 80s began, it took giants like Honda and BMW seasons to get it right and this time it will be seriously complicated with the limited fuel-flow and different recovery systems.

The way I see things, MHPE is as likely as anyone else to get it wrong.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

With the 2014 rules, I firmly believe that everybody will be newbies in a way. When the turbo-era of the 80s began, it took giants like Honda and BMW seasons to get it right and this time it will be seriously complicated with the limited fuel-flow and different recovery systems.

The way I see things, MHPE is as likely as anyone else to get it wrong.

Well it a clean sheet for everyone. But, can PURE throw money at their engine like Ferrari Mercedes or Renault?
I would think not.

Do they have the same facilties as the above trio?
I think not.

Do they have the staff of the top 3?
As they cant match pay grades, I think not.

So yes we could end up with blowing benz's But as they need to last even longer this time round, I doubt it.
Besides, if they screw up they can have a new design fresh and ready far sooner than PURE would given their resources.

So looking at the above, why would RB or Macca jump in 2014?

2015 people.....

[munudeges]

Given what we've seen of PURE's financing, facilities and almost certain manufacturer backing now they've finally shown their hand a bit, I wonder how they don't have the resources of other engine manufacturers? What makes you think they can't match pay grades when they're employing people like Gilles Simon, Jean-Pierre Boudy and several former Renault employees like Christian Contzen, according to Pollock they've already wasted 10 million Euros switching from the inline four and they have all the expertise of Mecachrome and IFP at their disposal?

We seem to be having very great difficulty establishing that this is not Cosworth.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

There is no difficulty to establish this is not Cosworth. Its PURE, pure and simple. Thats not the point so be polite in accepting that.

Cosworth are their for the lesser teams. They probably wont be around in 2014.
PURE have no customers as yet, and arent linked to any team AT ALL officially.
To see PURE supplying the lower rung team when Ferrari Mercedes and Renault wont is actually pretty easy.
So if people are going to attach great importance to what Craig Pollock says, didnt he say something about brash about BAR being able to challenge the big boys?

How did that end up? Yet here we are, almost full cycle and Pollock has another new play thing, this time as an engine supplier.
They havent even got design offices. Still on the lookout apparently, He reckons they have between 22 and 50 design engineers. Well which is it? 22 or 50?...AND guess whos name he mentioned...

PEUGEOT.

Well, I wonder if he'll find the suits of pug as forthcoming as those of the tobacco industry.

And Peugeot have their worst ever sales slump month on month.. this in from reuters:

PSA's sales dropped 19 percent to 112,802 cars, weighed down by a 23 percent plunge for the Peugeot brand

apparently, factories have been on idle for 2 months while Pug sorts out the overstock.
There is alot of grumbling from the french unions and its not hard to see that Pug are in dire straights here.
Im not so sure Pollock will find his chosen sugar daddies as flush as he thinks.


Of course, I hope to see PURE on the grid, F1 needs more engine competition and variance. But from my point of view, I see them joining initially as backmarker suppliers for a year, and then joining with a team higher up the grid on the proviso the engines are compareable to that of existing supplies.

[WhiteBlue]

If a team is behind this I can much more imagine that it is Red Bull. Why? They have the money and Mateschitz is never shy to enter into a venture if he is sure he has the right man to lead it. In that respect Pollock only is the front man as Horner is the front man at RBR. Simon is the man in the background who really runs the show and makes things happen. Like Newey he has a reputation to deliver. He did it with the turbo formula for the FiA and now he could be doing it for Red Bull. Who but a billionaire with very deep pockets could grab Simon from the FiA only days after the new formula was voted through? This thing rally smells a lot like Mateschitz operating style.

At the moment it is quite unclear how important engines and energy recovery will be for competitiveness in 2014 and beyond. It looks increasingly like the manufacturers will have a lot more opportunities to spend money than originally intended when the formula was set up. This looks like a plan B for me in case that there will be a cost race on the drive train in two years time. It could be a simple exercise to hedge an option.