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The battle of flexing rear wings

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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

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Manchild this one goes out to you :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZWMz17w ... =f1%202006
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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So that is how it flexes! Not just small wing on top but whole rear wing segment changes angle by rotataing backwards! That is why nothing can be seen on on-board footage or detected by stewards! Actual wing blades can be stiff as hell but their angle of attack changes and reduces the drag!
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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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It looked like even the rear endplates were flexing on that shot. I don't think its just the top plane but instead the whole think moves a tiny bit which addds to a high overalll efffect.

It could just have been the vibrations from the curbs though, but I don't think so.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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looks like a body bouncing over a curb to me
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Image

Now their decision to opt for two pillars becomes more reasonable since they are there to act as "suspension" arms enabling this movemnet of rear wing under load. Single pillar wouldn't be able to prevent lateral twisting.
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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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From that camera angle that seems the case MC but from the onboard it loooks more like just the top plane moving.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Tom wrote:...but from the onboard it loooks more like just the top plane moving.
That's because top plane crosses greater distance than the lower planne. I wonder if it flexes at all or perhaps whole wing is connected to gearbox via transversal axle and secured by spring that stretches under air pressure load and pulls back wing in neutral position on lower speeds. :?
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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Is there any way to find out. I'd actually really like to know how they acheived this and it seeems to be diffferent every day.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
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DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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You could use heat to change the flexing. Just place some material like polyethylene bushing between the wing support and transmission. Design it so that where the wing support connects to the transmission is like a hinge. When the FIA does it's inspection, the bushing is rigid, and flexes very little. Hang the weight, measure the deformation, viola, within specs. Then take the car on the track, especially after it has done a few warm up laps, and that bushing is now a lot hotter, and less rigid. The rear wing support now flexes a heck of a lot more, so much that it can be picked up by a camera at the side of the track.
And, plan "B" in case the car is called into the pits for inspection.. have a crew member run to the back to extinguish a "fire", with CO2. That bushing would be nice and cold within seconds......

Just one possible scenario......... :wink:
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kilcoo316
kilcoo316
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Joined: 09 Mar 2005, 16:45
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

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I suggest some of you look at technical regulation 3.17:
3.17.3 Bodywork may deflect by no more than one degree horizontally when a load of 1000N is applied
simultaneously to its extremities in a rearward direction 780mm above the reference plane and 20mm
forward of the rear wheel centre line.


and


3.17.5 The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm
horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 800mm above the reference
plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 250mm either side of it. The loads will be
applied in an rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the
relevant team.
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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Yes, but if flexing point is backwards beyond the imaginary vertical line where static load is applied wing wouldn't move at all no matter how hard you push it. It would move under air presure but be perfectly still under static load.

Image

Only if flexing point is infront that imaginary vertical line where static load is applied it would react on static load.
Image

*On these pics I persumed that static load is applied at the edge of upper wing (just for the sake of explanation trough pics)*
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kilcoo316
kilcoo316
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Joined: 09 Mar 2005, 16:45
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

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No, thats incorrect as the load paths are still identical (well, apart from local loadings on the wing element itself).
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DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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It appears that where and how the rear wing structure attaches to the transmission is what is important. The best picture I could get was this
http://www.f1racing.net/en/photolarge.p ... 74&catID=9
and in this one there are two vertical struts on the forward part of the wing and horizontal struts low down and to the rear of the endplates. Right now I can't find anything concrete to verify, nor can I disprove Manchild's theory.
I know it moves, the TV video shows rearward deflection. Just how it is done is still unknown.
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RH1300S
RH1300S
1
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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What you have to imagine is that the lower element is fixed to the gearbox struts, but the upper element is fixed to the end-plates - which are fixed to the bodywork. The two pieces seem to be able to move independently of each other. Although the lower element appears to be attached to the end plates it wouldn't be too hard to arrange a join that allowed controlled movement.

Visualise the lower element stays still and as the upper part flexes back and down it not only closes the gap, but also reduces the angle of attack.
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