McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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beelsebob
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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MIKEY_! wrote:The exhausts were right next to the tires last year and no problems came up. Some teams even had fins that appeared to turn the gases toward the tire rather than towards the diffuser and they still had no problems
Which team directed the exhaust at the tyres? I can only think of one instance in which that was rumoured, and it resulted in a puncture in turn 2 of lap 1.
And those gasses were even hotter than we would have to deal with this year since the pipes ended right next to the tire
Where they can be directed very easily into exactly the place that you want them, rather than having wind, other car's wakes, the car turning, varying speed of the exhaust flow depending on engine rpm, ... changing the path the gasses take.
Also there are plenty of materials out there to insulate the brakes from the gasses themselves and the ducts can be easily positioned so the gasses won't enter.
Easily? That sounds a lot like you just called getting aerodynamics exactly right an easy task. And are these insulating materials suitably light, suitably able to be made to go round corners, suitably thin, don't complicate the manufacturing process, ...
They won't blow the brake ducts they'll blow the fins above them.
Brake ducts that are moving relative to the exhaust exit. With Exhaust flows that are moving...
See plenty of room under that exhaust stream for ducts.
Except that you want the hot air to go under the winglet, not over it.

allstaruk08
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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yeah im planning on putting the exhaust on the outside of the L pods they will hang over the side of the sidepods so air can go uder them if that makes sense :s lol thats where i'd expect McLaren to put them anyways :)

"I doubt that it would pass the crash test!" hahaha very funny :P

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MIKEY_!
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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1. Look back through the lotus (green and gold) topic for 2011. There is a picture clearly showing a fin (or two I don't recall which) that is angled towards the tire. I commented that it looks like a tire warmer. Apparently it helps form the right vortex for the diffuser.

2. Fair point but the same is true of the blown rear wing. In fact I would say the BRW would be even worse in this regard.

3. See that large grey area around the rear wheel in the scarbs picture I posted. That is all available for the duct entrance. The exhaust as you can see does not pass through most of that area. Getting the insulation thin enough could be a problem but complexity is not such a worry in F1.

4. Yes the brake ducts are moving. But unless the wheel moves upwards by about one wheel radius (I'm not sure that's even possible and it's certainly catastrophic) they are safe from exhaust flow. Yes exhaust flows are moving but again not as much as the BRW.

5. Under the winglet is better sure, but over the top or on both sides is still OK. Remember teams blowing the top of the diffuser? That worked alright. The extra speed of the gasses (in comparison to the ambient flow) will generate downforce, just like any wing generates more DF at higher air speeds.
Last edited by MIKEY_! on 29 Jan 2012, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.

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MIKEY_!
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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Found it:

Image

The angle is less than I thought but it's there.

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Shakeman
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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gilgen wrote: There is a lot of speculation on this thread, most of which will be proven to be wrong, but you have nothing to even back up your comments, other than the fact that you do not believe that the FIA are capable of scruitineering a car.
RB & Ferrari front wings kinda prove my point don't they? If they aren't a failure of scrutineering then what is?

beelsebob
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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Shakeman wrote:
gilgen wrote: There is a lot of speculation on this thread, most of which will be proven to be wrong, but you have nothing to even back up your comments, other than the fact that you do not believe that the FIA are capable of scruitineering a car.
RB & Ferrari front wings kinda prove my point don't they? If they aren't a failure of scrutineering then what is?
There exists a case x such that in x the FIA didn't do a good scrutinising job does not imply for all cases x...

thestig84
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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N12ck wrote: I think the Mclaren will feature Williams style gearbox and L pods I think will be developed further into super L pods!!
The intakes are definitely not L/U shaped :wink:

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jordangp
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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thestig84 wrote:
N12ck wrote: I think the Mclaren will feature Williams style gearbox and L pods I think will be developed further into super L pods!!
The intakes are definitely not L/U shaped :wink:
Nothing's definite until the car is released, although I wouldn't of thought they'd keep the same design this year.

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N12ck
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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Then again, the U pods, due to the EBD ban, the u-pods could allow more air to get at the beam wing which may make up for a bit of df loss from the EBD,
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tkulla
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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Like everyone here, the anticipation is killing me... I can't wait to see the new cars. And I'm curious about some of these design ideas and the general concepts behind them (hopefully we will see some fairly radical looking solutions).

I'm assuming the biggest design goal for this year is generating rear downforce to make up for the loss of the EBDs, and that McLaren needs to change their current L J side pods (which I really like) to get more air to the diffuser/rear wing.

Beyond that, would the "fighter jet" setup that has been speculated generate downforce in the middle of the car (with wings) or just condition the air for the rear? How important is the beam wing in rear downforce and will this be a target for exhaust gases? Will teams be able to create an "air skirt" with "regular" air and not exhaust gases?

thestig84
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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jordangp wrote:
thestig84 wrote:
N12ck wrote: I think the Mclaren will feature Williams style gearbox and L pods I think will be developed further into super L pods!!
The intakes are definitely not L/U shaped :wink:
Nothing's definite until the car is released, although I wouldn't of thought they'd keep the same design this year.
Im in contact with someone who has seen the tub so Im 99% definite

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N12ck
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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thestig84 wrote:The intakes are definitely not L/U shaped :wink:
jordangp wrote:Nothing's definite until the car is released, although I wouldn't of thought they'd keep the same design this year.
thestig98 wrote:Im in contact with someone who has seen the tub so Im 99% definite
Be careful of what you say, as the person your in contact in could loose his job (if he works at mclaren) everyone remember Gooney?
Budding F1 Engineer

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raymondu999
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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DON'T MENTION THE DEAD ZONE!! :lol:
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N12ck
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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raymondu999 wrote:DON'T MENTION THE DEAD ZONE!! :lol:
+1 ,,, if anyone ever works for McLaren, never ever mention the dead zone :lol:
Budding F1 Engineer

JB2011
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Re: McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

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N12ck wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:DON'T MENTION THE DEAD ZONE!! :lol:
+1 ,,, if anyone ever works for McLaren, never ever mention the dead zone :lol:
This sounds interesting! What's that?