Braking and turning in - Trail Braking

[raymondu999]

A lot of technical directors such as James Allison and respected journalists have also noted on that though. And I can't remember; but possibly Paul Hembery too.

[Jersey Tom]

Doesn't make a bit of difference who, or how many people say it. Journalists in particular.

If a set of tires "doesn't like doing more than 1 thing at a time" there are still a number of things you could isolate that to.

[ringo]

It's possible we will see left foot braking with certain clutch maps to go around the ban. Blowing will be there in 2012.
But whether its effective or not is another question. The exhaust positioning simply makes it difficult to get much blowing effect.
Blowing works best in the direct proximity of the exhaust opening. The further away the colder and slower the gases, the less effective the blowing.

[Robbobnob]

I was under the impression that Formula 1 was left foot braking, due to the reaction times required its more efficient... no lag getting off the throttle then onto the brake peddle

[ringo]

I was speaking to braking while pressing the accelerator. It's the legal way to blow the exhaust full tilt.

[Gridlock]

Every driver other than BAR (so, every driver I guess ) left foot brakes.

WEB was supposed to have found a better way to drive than VET when map-driven EBD was banned, eg early 2010 or Silverstone '11. But given the blown effect is almost gone, bar some fancy loopholin, I doubt it will have much effect this year.

[gold333]

I remember Schumachers assessment of his own speed back in the early 2000's when asked by a journalist was that he thought most good drivers could stay on the friction oval on corner exit, but he could do it on corner entry too. That's how he put it.

Isn't Schumachers style (like Mansell's was) early brake (Herbert's readouts always showed Johnny braked later but heavier), so less brake, early turn in, early apex? And feeling his way around the apex using that superior feel for grip that he had?

You can see the early turn in clearly at 0.20s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtaV_cOGgTM

I think the whole friction oval way of driving (like Schumacher) might not be the fastest way though. There are times you must exceed the oval and break traction to get the car turned in. Say in a Senna like late brake late turn in and drift the car into the corner so you can accelerate early and late apex style, etc.

I think friction oval must never be considered without also considering momentum of the car, what do you think?

[raymondu999]

I always thought that Schumacher's line was quite a "smooth" line... a more conventional approach if you will. I'm not entirely sure of his braking though. The limited telemetry we do get to see we basically see a big red bar that lights up even if the brakes are only tapped.

Having said that; the Senna style of using entry oversteer to get the car rotated still seems to be alive nowadays - you can sort of catch it on Lewis and Seb in the slow corners; though both seem to have a different approach. Seb seems more of get the car rotated, catch it early, and power out early. Hamilton seems to catch it later (by design - I'm not saying he CAN'T catch it as early as Seb) and gets on the throttle later as he regains traction later; but the payback for him is that he has a bigger oversteer moment where he's carrying more speed through.

[MIKEY_!]

Could braking early (and more than necessary??) for a corner and then getting on the accelerator earlier in the corner be useful.

[hardingfv32]

Could braking early (and more than necessary??) for a corner and then getting on the accelerator earlier in the corner be useful.

Vs. running with high fuel efficiency, smaller fuel load, as light as possible?

Brian

[raymondu999]

Could braking early (and more than necessary??) for a corner and then getting on the accelerator earlier in the corner be useful.

Sounds like you'd be doing a late apex, except you're braking too early. But I'd think a conventional apex, as in braking earlier than trail; and basically maximizing the grip of the tyres for purely lateral acceleration could be useful.

[MIKEY_!]

It essentially moves the braking point back and the 'throttle on' part of the corner back as well, allowing exhaust to have an aerodynamic effect for a larger part of the corner. I would not have thought it would impact fuel loads much. Also makes for higher corner exit speeds in some cases...I think. Changing the balance of the car towards the rear mid corner might not be such a good idea.

[bhall]

There are only two reasons I can think of for braking early for a turn: to somehow avoid hitting something/someone or if you don't particularly care about winning.

[Jersey Tom]

There are times you must exceed the oval and break traction to get the car turned in.

Completely disagree. If you "exceed the oval" on entry you are either locking the inside front tire and plowing, or locking the inside rear and going for a ride.

There are certainly things you can do to get the car to pivot on entry - I agree this can be advantageous - but has nothing to do with exceeding traction.

[raymondu999]

JT - but surely if you stay within, and up to, the limit of the "traction circle" then the car will stay planted?