Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

[ledzep4pm]

Does anyone think there is a chance of McLaren running hydraulically interlinked suspension. Mercedes and Ferrari and currently doing it, it might help resolve the stiffness and braking stability issues. IIRC Last year Hamilton said that McLaren has always had too poor a braking stability and he want's them to improve that.

Does anyone else remember this ?

I know they run a springless rear to get a soft rear (better traction and packaging) but they then also have a very stiff front as a consequence, hence the poor braking stability.

P.S This is all from memory so some details might be incorrect

[Raptor22]

I do not know for sure how they operate now: are you? I mean, do you know the teams process'

Anyway, it is not that important, there is and will be a lot more interesting stuff to discuss

I know how Ferrari do theirs. I watched a daocumentary a year or so ago where they showed how a F1 car is prepared for race, from paint shop to decaling final finish.
The McLaren footage was from 2008 or 9 and I recall they said the decals are applied in such a way as to be easily removed during clean after a race so the paintshop can repair piant chips from track debis etc.
The Ferrari was easier to repair paint wise since they use mostly water transfers over paint and only really needed to touc up the clear coat. McLaren had more work to do. They showed the chassis and engine being painted, water transfer being applied and then final spraying.

It might now all be cnc sprayed but I don't recall any F1 team utilising such a technology in their paint shop since its only really good for production sparying and not the bespoke designs as seen on the McLaren.

Generally, if its a large expanse of colour, its paint, if its lettering its either water transfer or vinyl decals

[shelly]

I think that the feeling everybody has that there are a or of dummy parts o the mp4-27 is limiting the discussion on it.
But there are a lot of thing to discuss, still; for example the crash structure.
Seeing no wings fairing crash structures, as rumored, was disappointing, but do you expect them to come out at the third test?

Personally I found weired the panelisation of the bodywork at the upper leading edge, and i have found that leading edge remarkably thin. If someone could find and post the two pictures of the catheram ct01 and mp427 rad intake, the difference is striking.
Like for the mp426, it is difficult to imagine how small and thin are mclaren crash tubes.
I expect development in that zone before Melbourne. What do you think?

[Raptor22]

Does anyone think there is a chance of McLaren running hydraulically interlinked suspension. Mercedes and Ferrari and currently doing it, it might help resolve the stiffness and braking stability issues. IIRC Last year Hamilton said that McLaren has always had too poor a braking stability and he want's them to improve that.

Does anyone else remember this ?

I know they run a springless rear to get a soft rear (better traction and packaging) but they then also have a very stiff front as a consequence, hence the poor braking stability.

P.S This is all from memory so some details might be incorrect

The "Springless" rear suspension is not really springless. Its a unit damper the has a compressed air chamber to aid the spring rate of flexing suspension arms.
That is then connected to a "platform damper" i.e.e one with a hydraulic circuit that "pops" a release valve if the car hits a curb. That's the general layout.
The hydraulic interlinking is likely going to be come more widely adopted as it allows for much more control of the damping rates and provides improved governance over the shape of the tyre contact patch

[Raptor22]

I think that the feeling everybody has that there are a or of dummy parts o the mp4-27 is limiting the discussion on it.
But there are a lot of thing to discuss, still; for example the crash structure.
Seeing no wings fairing crash structures, as rumored, was disappointing, but do you expect them to come out at the third test?

Personally I found weired the panelisation of the bodywork at the upper leading edge, and i have found that leading edge remarkably thin. If someone could find post the two pictures of the catheram ct01 and mp427 rad intake, the difference is striking.
Like for the mp426, it is difficult to imagine how small and thin are mclaren crash tubes.
I expect development in that zone before Melbourne. What do you think?

Whats clear to me from the engine cover paneling is that there is a lot going on under that engine cover. The hot air exit vent or bee sting at the rear is quite small so I'm wondering if there isn't some F-duct trickery going on to divert air out the sting or selectively out the "exhaust horns on the sidepod.
Not sure why they would want to dump so much hot gas into that space. Its got kinetic energy but its also less dense. I tend t agree that we are not seeing the final bodywork package on this car. The first test will probably be tyre evaluation wrt to suspension performance.

With what they have shown us I can come up with a few creative ideas to postulate on what they do. None may be right of course but I'm sure theres good science in Woking

[shelly]

There are already quite big openings for cooling near the gearbox.
As for exhaust, I think that they will have to make comparison on track, being them too difficult to test otherwise.

[hardingfv32]

The hydraulic interlinking is likely going to be come more widely adopted as it allows for much more control of the damping rates and provides improved governance over the shape of the tyre contact patch

This is something that could have been done for the last two decades. Why should it become popular now? What has change?

In general what is the perceived benefit?

Brian

[hardingfv32]

If we were to ASSUME this was the best location and attitude for the exhaust, could the side-pod be shaped better for this exhaust location?

Brian

[PhillipM]

The "Springless" rear suspension is not really springless. Its a unit damper the has a compressed air chamber to aid the spring rate of flexing suspension arms.

Not really, you just don't need corner springs when you already have an anti-roll bar and a heave spring

[fets81]

@raptor22: as I said, decals are avoided when possible. I think that they are less and less. Yes, they would use expensive masks for writings and logos (vodafone being also painted, not only the red). Or tranfers, like you said, under the transparent layer. But most teams will try and avoid putting stickers on the outside.

Yes and no.
It depends.

Frstly theres very little aero benefit I would imagine. The cars produce so muych dag the few grammes of drag created by a vinyl sticker protruding 0.1mm into the airstream is negligable in comparison to 4 large 13 inch, 50 profile racing tyres.

Its mostly for presentation. The clear coated water transfers look more professional than large vinyl stick on's. When you paying $30 Million have your logo on the car you want to be considered as more than an afterthought. Having those logos painted on makes the sponsor feel more like part of the team and its just looks more professional.

Hi first post on the forums but have been a long time reader & watching f1 for over 20 years, tbh I'm very much out of my depth with the technical discussion that go on here but i saw the posts about the decals

I have noticed that some decals are replaced in the garage but it was only ever the warning electrical decals or something similar though obviously you see them peel the application tape of sponsors when its a new sponsor on a new car but obviously thats the show car but i did read i think back at the end of 09 that williams had explored some options on vehicle wrapping, nothing extreme, i think it was barge boards & just certain sections of the car rather than the entire car but i would of thought that would be the best option for say when redbull run the sky sponsors on their barge boards in brazil for example for the last 2 years, i would of thought they would just wrap the entire barge board to keep the surface smooth, it wouldn't really add any weight or change any of the characteristics of the surface can be stripped off without damaging the part....just a thought anyway

[Raptor22]

Philip

I think what I said is correct since due to the short travel of an F1 suspension the anti roll bar is in effect also a torsion bar and there is a Heave spring.
There is/may also may a gas spring built into the damper to allow for more subtle changes to spring rate without having to alter anti roll bar dimensions

I agree with what you're saying but essentially the suspension is not really Springless.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Here is a picture of the MP4-27 exhaust position relative to the Regs.





Thanks Khan_F1 for the heads up.

[scarlet]

Here is a picture of the MP4-27 exhaust position relative to the Regs.





Thanks Khan_F1 for the heads up.

The upper limit is valid but the wake will curve downwards to a varying degree in the airflow, so could blow bodywork beneath the lower limit as shown. And I guess it would also be deflected inwards horizontally too.

[Raptor22]

how much "blowing" effect is there really. By the time the exhaust stream gets to the wing its lost energy and is less dense than cooler air.
There has to be a trade off

[Shakeman]

Here is a picture of the MP4-27 exhaust position relative to the Regs.


Thanks Khan_F1 for the heads up.

Could teams employ a moveable exhaust which would enable them to point the exhaust gases at different places at different speeds? There has to be a reason for that bulge.