Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

[Lurk]

Can't see the video from here (proxy..) but they ran this kind of nose the last 2 years and it was proved to work very well with the overall car. So why should they be worried just because others choose stepped nose?

[sAx]

Can't see the video from here (proxy..) but they ran this kind of nose the last 2 years and it was proved to work very well with the overall car. So why should they be worried just because others choose stepped nose?

If you can get your proxy up an running, you will hear Mr Anderson explain it much better than I can. But the principle is a simple physical one, better mass flow under the 'croc' cars allowing more air to be worked to produce downforce. Mr Anderson's view is that there is a limit with what can be achieved under the current regs to improve performance using the 'pretty' MP4-27 nose. I hope he is wrong.

sAx







If I have done it correctly, the above may help to illustrate Mr Anderson's point, particularly the wide throat under F2012 nose.

[Francesc]

This nose configuration worked for McLaren last year there's no reason why it shouldn't this year.

Last year they had the hot blowing, without it they were at the midfield.

[xpensive]

After having seen three out of four cars sporting the same hideous nose-job, this is how I figure;

The MP4-27 would have been xactly the same, if it wasn't for Ron threatening to fire every designer if they dared.

[foxmulder_ms]

Well, that relatively sharp change on top of the nose has to have some negative aerodynamic effect, too compared to smooth transition mclaren has.

[thestig84]

This nose configuration worked for McLaren last year there's no reason why it shouldn't this year.

Last year they had the hot blowing, without it they were at the midfield.

This is like lots of mclaren twitter fans saying they have got it either very right or very wrong. Its all a balance of compromises. They used this concept successfully on the 25 which had no hot blowing or blowing at all early on.

The main reason (as has been said I think) they are likely to be the only one with a low nose is their 25 26 low chassis concept suited the new rules so isnt a huge departure. Other teams have the step nose as that isnt a big departure for them. I dont think it will be this years performance differentiator.

[horse]

I wonder if this is just a conceptual thing coming through. The McLaren nose looks like it will push flow out towards the bargeboards, using them more aggressively than the high nose cars, whereas the high nose cars rely on the snowplough to do the work with the oncoming air. Anyway, I think its a little more complicated than just saying a high front end is better. It's what you do with it that counts.

Perhaps McLaren think they can get more airflow by working the air wide towards the barge boards with the nose and then entrain more air in behind nose to be worked with the snowplough. IDK, looks complicated to me. Perhaps worthy of it's own thread.

[shelly]

@horse: I think it is the other way round: it is mclaren relying on the snowplough to develop flow features. High nosed car do not have one (maybe force india had snowplough last year?).

But I agree with you on that is a bit more complicated than the higher the better. It would be nice to see what structrures does the snowplough develop and how they interact with the other parts of the car

[horse]

Sorry, shelly, when I say "snow plough" I mean the structure under the tub, above the tea tray, to move the air left and right about the chassis. I guess the McLaren nose does a similar job, so perhaps "nose plough" might kill the ambiguity.

[shelly]

Ok what you call snow plogh us usually called keel, whereas he snow plough is that specific element introduced by brawn 2009 and used by mclaren.

[Metalrulz]

Is it the camera angle or is the Ferrari front wing closer to the ground than the mclaren ?

[Lurk]

@sAx: I understood what you meant the first time, you explained it very well I think. The proxy thing was just my way to ask if he said something else.

What I meant with the nose is that McLaren has a well build front which worked very well the last 2 years. If they kept it this year, it implies that their nose met their 2012 objectives and was the best to do it.
I would have been more septical if it was a new nose concept but it isn't, it is a proved one. So why be worried? Because of what Anderson said?
We all know F1 is made of trend. Someone found a trick, everyone jump in. Another one found a better thing, everyone follow.
Blown diffusors wasn't a RBR innovation, neither pullrods nor high noses. But they found a great way to use them so everyone did the same. 10 years ago everyone follow Ferrari on low nose + periscope exhausts.
McLaren are certainly more aware of what they're doing than Anderson and if limit there is - which is plausible - if they are far from it or not (unless calculation errors of course).

[Tyler]

Why would Gary Anderson know more than guys like Paddy Lowe and Neil Oatley?
I don't think McLarens problems at the start of 2011 were due to their nose and I don't believe that the car was rubbish without the EBD either.
McLaren seem to have a different concept for their front end to the other teams and will possibly be the only ones with a snow plough.
I'm sure they investigated both solutions but this type of nose obviously works for them - I doubt they'll be surprised or be caught off guard by the teams coming out with the gator nose.

[sAx]

Why would Gary Anderson know more than guys like Paddy Lowe and Neil Oatley?..

Certainly not suggesting that Gary Anderson understands the MP4-27 design philosophy better than Tim Goss/Neil Oatley or Paddy Lowe! However the tightly constrained regulations provide the knowledgeable with the necessary degree of technical hindsight as to where in the design life-cycle that performance benefit can be maximised. Specifically more knowledgeable than me that is.

I love the way McLaren approach everything, but that is not the same as saying that it is impossible for them to re-repeat early stage design errors witnessed over the last 3yrs.

sAx

[Mr.S]

In this case he would because Lowe is creating the car. Creators would be very biased with their own creations knowing all the possible good sides. Mclaren has 0 Constructer's Title in the last 10 years. Apart from 2007 they have never had the Fastest,not in the 1st race atleast.

Paddy & the rest have been part of these "FAILURES" by Mclaren standards over the years. They dish out the same 2nd or 3rd best car every year.

Anyways I would not take Anderson's words as Gospel truth not only because he is no Newey but it is impossible to predict fully just by vieweing by the naked EYE. We need to see them race & be driven. It is still all speculations. Having said that I called this out on being a Solid but not Race Winning Car. I expect this to fight with Mercedes & FI. I think Force India have a much better car this year & can beat Mclaren.