For 2012: Nose Regulations

[gold333]

Hmm, I just think they look too fat to me :L but then again, I'm only 15... a good few years older and maybe I'd understand I grew up with the narrower, higher nose, and that's what I prefer

The fact they look fat is because of their age, you can't change that aspect (although the MP4/8 has a very beautiful complex aero design shape if you see it in real life and isn't fat at all).

It's more the fact that they were the last race cars in history that had organic round curves like a beautiful woman that made them more beautiful for some. And the fact the Indycars for example had around 1000hp and ran 260 mph (~415 km/h) around Michigan. That is way faster than today.

[jordangp]

The bottom IS as high as it can be. The front bulkhead (Where chassis meets nosecone, where drop starts) has to be a mandated dimension of 300mm x 275mm. This is placed as high as possible, Meaning the top is at 625mm above reference plane. However 150mm forward of this, it can only be 550mm above reference plane, causing this drop off of 75mm.

Hopefully this diagram helps to explain:

[gold333]

The bottom IS as high as it can be. The front bulkhead (Where chassis meets nosecone, where drop starts) has to be a mandated dimension of 300mm x 275mm. This is placed as high as possible, Meaning the top is at 625mm above reference plane. However 150mm forward of this, it can only be 550mm above reference plane, causing this drop off of 75mm.

Thanks now I understand. I didn't know about the 550mm limit. I thought it was the tip of the nose instead. So I guess McLaren have chosen to lower the entire front bulkhead to smoothly transition into the 550mm nosecone base limit. And thereby risking reduced underbody airflow?



Man that makes me hate this rule even more. The car either looks grotesque or goes slow?

[jordangp]

The bottom IS as high as it can be. The front bulkhead (Where chassis meets nosecone, where drop starts) has to be a mandated dimension of 300mm x 275mm. This is placed as high as possible, Meaning the top is at 625mm above reference plane. However 150mm forward of this, it can only be 550mm above reference plane, causing this drop off of 75mm.

Thanks now I understand. I didn't know about the 550mm limit. I thought it was the tip of the nose instead. So I guess McLaren have chosen to lower the entire front bulkhead to smoothly transition into the 550mm nosecone base limit. And thereby risking reduced underbody airflow?

Exactly.

This is the reason we will see many of these bumps this year, to get better underbody airflow. This is why they should have stuck with the original rule they put in place, where the front bulkhead was mandated at 550mm instead. That way all noses would either taper down gradually, or be completely flat topped.

[gold333]

Does anyone else think the FIA may actually be incompetent as a governing body when drafting technical regulations?

Somebody should have noticed this nose idiocy before we got this far..

[Jeffsvilleusa]

Does anyone else think the FIA may actually be incompetent as a governing body when drafting technical regulations?

This is what I felt in regard to the short rear wing/huge front wing, drs, kers and pirelli's uber-degredation. Whoever drafts these regulations has no sense of subtilty whatsoever.

[manchild]

I think that some people misunderstand the rules. No one forced Ferrari to have top of the AA bulkhead at 625mm. That is not in the rules. It was their choice not to have a drop of chassis towards front from BB to AA like Mclaren already had last year.

It was obviously their decision not to redesign the chassis, but to adapt nose and rest of the car to 2012 regulations. If they wanted a smooth transition between upper plane of the nose and upper plane of the chassis, than they had to redesign chassis as I've already explained.

Mclaren had such declination of upper planes towards front end in the previous season, so they basically had no problems with 2012 regulations, even with old chassis.

Look at the pics above, Mclaren has BB at 625 and AA at 550, while Ferrari has both BB and AA at 625. That is why Ferrari nose is fugly, it simply can't be prettier in chosen constellation.

[gold333]

I think that some people misunderstand the rules. No one forced Ferrari to have top of the AA bulkhead at 625mm. That is not in the rules. It was their choice not to have a drop of chassis towards front from BB to AA like Mclaren already had last year.

It was obviously their decision not to redesign the chassis, but to adapt nose and rest of the car to 2012 regulations. If they wanted a smooth transition between upper plane of the nose and upper plane of the chassis, than they had to redesign chassis as I've already explained.

Mclaren had such declination of upper planes towards front end in the previous season, so they basically had no problems with 2012 regulations, even with old chassis.

Look at the pics above, Mclaren has BB at 625 and AA at 550, while Ferrari has both BB and AA at 625. That is why Ferrari nose is fugly, it simply can't be prettier in chosen constellation.

Do you realise it is in the interest of (almost) all teams to increase underbody airflow? Since F1 cars run a stepped and not flat bottom -> therefore high noses, since 1995. With this regulation I think it will be the exception that a team has a 2012 McLaren nose.
Most will simply try to increase underbody flow, therefore raise the tub height to the maximum and live with the grotesque nose design at the point the nose has to be no higher than a certain height (550mm).

[manchild]

Do you realise it is in the interest of (almost) all teams to increase underbody airflow? Since F1 cars run a stepped and not flat bottom -> therefore high noses, since 1995. With this regulation I think it will be the exception that a team has a 2012 McLaren nose.
Most will simply try to increase underbody flow, therefore raise the tub height to the maximum and live with the grotesque nose design at the point the nose has to be no higher than a certain height (550mm).

I was talking about existing cars. Most of the teams already had it raised to max height for years, one of them was Ferrari. Unlike them, Mclaren lowered the chassis and the nose last year, scoring 122 more points than Ferrari, and maintained design trend for 2012.

So teams won't be trying to raise it relative to their 2011 chassis, especially given to 2012 regulations, because that is illogical. Those who can afford it and had enough time, will follow what Mclaren did last year - slightly lover the chassis in order to have undisturbed airflow on top.

The amount of air that reaches floor doesn't depend mainly on height of the nose and chassis. If having chassis and nose as high as possible is the only way to have a competitive car, than Brawn GP with one of the lowest chassis and nose in the previous years could never scored a point, hardly become a top car.

Ferrari's explanation about how lego nose doesn't influence negatively the flow is bs. If having nose shaped like that has benefits as they say, than they must have been extremely shortsighted not to apply it years ago.

[jordangp]

Yes I think that was explained. Ferrari have gone doen the route that most will, hindering flow over the top slightly to gain an increase in underbody flow.

[Tozza Mazza]

people keep talking of this 'underbody flow' and it's quite off putting, as most people will assume this means 'more air under the floor', which is not true.

What it does is increase the quality of air to the splitter, front of sidepods, bargeboards and leading edge of the floor.

[jordangp]

And to get some better airflow quality, you would need a large area under the nose anyway?

[Tozza Mazza]

And to get some better airflow quality, you would need a large area under the nose anyway?

Not necessarily

[jordangp]

But in most circumstances, the larger and clearer the area is, the more 'clean' airflow there is, which is your 'better quality' airflow

[bhall]

I saw this in another forum. It was posted before the launch of any 2012 car.

Thank goodness something is being done in this arena. Beyond the safety aspects, to me, the high noses have been an aesthetic abomination and any lowering of them can only improve the looks of the cars.