Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Crucial_Xtreme]

RB8 rear with Flo-Viz. right click>view image

[Adrian Newby]

Air dams can be useful, in the right places, but this is not one of them.

Designers try "waist" the area between the front tires and under the nose (remember, 3D) to get as much high-energy air to the undertray as they can, much like they waist the rear bodywork to get air to the rear wings, top of the diffuser, etc. An air dam in this area (whether top, sides or bottom) would impede the flow they want most.

that's what air dams do. and gurneys are similar. you impede the flow to gain pressure or loose pressure in a particular place.

Yes, that is what air dams do. And what air dams do is not what you want there. That was my point.

The issue at hand is what is needed in that specific area. Building up a bubble of air between the front tires does not improve airflow between them. It does the exact opposite. What is needed is more space there, not less. So Newey not only did not build up a bubble there, he also cleverly got rid of the hump (in the aerodynamic sense) by allowing air to flow through it instead of over and around it. Basically, he made an anti-air dam.

[mclaren777]

look at the nose top and blow.Below you can see hole.It is from that letter box.any suggestions what this could be

Thanks for giving me credit.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=2862

[bhall]

[Slit under nose]

look at the nose top and blow.Below you can see hole.It is from that letter box.any suggestions what this could be

Could the lower slit be an air intake that feeds the slit on top of the nose in an effort to offset the increased drag of its stepped design?

[mclaren777]

Here's the best picture of it I've found after the initial discovery...

[Adrian Newby]

[Slit under nose]

look at the nose top and blow.Below you can see hole.It is from that letter box.any suggestions what this could be

Could the lower slit be an air intake that feeds the slit on top of the nose in an effort to offset the increased drag of its stepped design?

Both slits are air intakes. My guess is the lower one cools the KERS unit, which is directly behind the driver's seat, and under the fuel tank.

Once again, clever Newey is turning a negative into a positive. With the lower slit he is peeling off the turbulent boundary layer to help the flow under the car, while also getting some cooling flow for the KERS, which ran a little too hot last year.

[Adrian Newby]

[Slit under nose]

look at the nose top and blow.Below you can see hole.It is from that letter box.any suggestions what this could be

Could the lower slit be an air intake that feeds the slit on top of the nose in an effort to offset the increased drag of its stepped design?

I don't think the designers are very concerned about the drag of the step noses on the new cars. Because the hump looks so ugly, it seems like it should be doing all kinds of nasty things to the coefficient of drag. And it certainly isn't helping, but Formula One cars are incredibly draggy to begin with because the designers are almost always willing to accept more drag for more downforce. Which is what they are doing here.

Also, the top of the nose is a location where any increase in drag is going to have a minimal effect since that air is milliseconds from running into the most turbulent part of the car (besides the spinning tires) - the cockpit opening/driver's helmet - where it will be stirred up anyway.

[bhall]

It's somehow confirmed that both are intakes? Or is that just a consensus opinion?

I don't mean to seem skeptical. I just haven't read anything to that effect, but it's easily possible that I missed it.

I wonder if something like my "solution" would work, though. The larger slit, placed in an area that gets much more airflow, scoops some of that air, which then exits through the smaller slit on top of the nose to create a virtual surface that cuts drag.

Or do I have a gross misunderstanding of how such things work?

[Adrian Newby]

It's somehow confirmed that both are intakes? Or is that just a consensus opinion?

I don't mean to seem skeptical. I just haven't read anything to that effect, but it's easily possible that I missed it.

I wonder if something like that would work, though. The larger slit, placed in an area that gets much more airflow, scoops some of that air, which then exits through the smaller slit on top of the nose to create a virtual surface that cuts drag.

Or do I have a gross misunderstanding of how such things work?

The main tip-off is that both slits have forward facing "scoops", for lack of a better term. The top one would have an exit behind the ramp (which would block the oncoming air) if it was an outlet for air.

But please don't take mine as a consensus opinion. I haven't heard from anyone here who has agreed with me yet! Doesn't mean I'm wrong, though...

[bhall]

It's fun to speculate.

As you said, the airflow over the top of the nose is minimal when compared to that underneath. I'd think the larger scoop drawing from a much larger volume of airflow would be enough for a cushion of air to form between the two ridges on top of the nose. In which case, the top slit's orientation would be an asset.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

RB8 exhaust in action

[Adrian Newby]

It's somehow confirmed that both are intakes? Or is that just a consensus opinion?

I don't mean to seem skeptical. I just haven't read anything to that effect, but it's easily possible that I missed it.

I wonder if something like my "solution" would work, though. The larger slit, placed in an area that gets much more airflow, scoops some of that air, which then exits through the smaller slit on top of the nose to create a virtual surface that cuts drag.

Or do I have a gross misunderstanding of how such things work?

To answer the other part of your question, yes, what you propose would have the effect you suggest. It would be, in effect, a slightly "active" version of the air dam idea others have proposed. You can read my previous posts for my thoughts on air dams on any part of the car between the front wheels.

[Adrian Newby]

RB8 exhaust in action

Nice pic!

Adrian is getting some "unsprung" downforce on that upper A-arm that is going straight into the rear wheel.

[bhall]

I just thought of something else. Once the car reaches a certain speed, it stands to reason - to me, at least - that the system would become "inert," for lack of a better word, as the volume of the air becomes simply too much for the slits to handle. Then the bottom scoop would experience the same effect as the top one. It would then be almost as if neither scoop even exists, and neither would the drag from the stepped nose.

[Adrian Newby]

It's fun to speculate.

As you said, the airflow over the top of the nose is minimal when compared to that underneath. I'd think the larger scoop drawing from a much larger volume of airflow would be enough for a cushion of air to form between the two ridges on top of the nose. In which case, the top slit's orientation would be an asset.

The effect of the drag on the top of the nose is minimal. I actually think the upper intake would draw in more air than the lower. The ramp leading up to it, the radiused fences on either side, and the radius on top all add up to make it a larger intake overall. That (upper) slot is immediately going through a bulkhead that is an inch thick, or more, making it look smaller than it actually is, if not looked at directly head on.