Mclaren revival?

jgredline · Post 01 Jun 2006, 17:49

NickT wrote:The problem with the Mercedes/Ilmor is catch up Last year they struggled with reliability and spent the rest of the season playing catch up, this year has been the same

The problem with catch up it everyone else has moved on again Then you compromise reliability once more to rush through new development to try and catch up once more

Kimi seems to bear the brunt of these problems, but I wonder how much of that is down to his lack of mechanical sympathy or education or simply because he is so focused on other things he forgets to look after the engine, where Fernando and Michael both can

I agree with you except on your third point.
Its not Kimis job to look after the engine. That is basically controlled by the pits. They control the revs. I don't see how a F1 driver can look after the engine aside from shifting it at the right time.

kilcoo316 · Post 02 Jun 2006, 16:33

Where do people get the idea that Barcelona shows up only engine deficiencies?

Having a large power deficiency didn't stop Alonso having a great race to 2nd in 2003 did it?

tetopelis · Post 02 Jun 2006, 18:27

yes good point..who did say that barcelona shows up engine defecit. it shows the overall weakness of a car. especially its abillity to take fast corners. thats more tied to its aerodynamic efficieny and capability. because there are many long fast sweeping corners in barcelona that needs the overall package to win in. If you rmbr last year, the mercedes power plant was not the best yet kimi's mclaren was blazingly fast, why?..its such a superbly balanced car both speed and downforce all in one.
by the way, mclaren test notes are saying that they are testing new aerodynamic and suspension parts..anyone noticed anything??

peroa · Post 02 Jun 2006, 19:16

They are verifiyng the parts they tested at Paul Ricard 2 weeks ago, Whitmarsh said.

jgredline · Post 02 Jun 2006, 21:07

tetopelis wrote:yes good point..who did say that barcelona shows up engine defecit. it shows the overall weakness of a car. especially its abillity to take fast corners. thats more tied to its aerodynamic efficieny and capability. because there are many long fast sweeping corners in barcelona that needs the overall package to win in. If you rmbr last year, the mercedes power plant was not the best yet kimi's mclaren was blazingly fast, why?..its such a superbly balanced car both speed and downforce all in one.
by the way, mclaren test notes are saying that they are testing new aerodynamic and suspension parts..anyone noticed anything??

Yes I stand corrected. Barcelona is more of a handling and aero track.
Kimi did say and I will find the link and post it, that car was working very well everyplace except the straights. Actually what he said was that it was not handling good down the straights. Point being that with that mercedez in the back there was not much he could do.
Look at Monaco where engine does not mean as much. Kimi was flying until
the electrical problem. (wires burning)

NickT · Post 02 Jun 2006, 23:54

jgredline wrote:I agree with you except on your third point.
Its not Kimis job to look after the engine. That is basically controlled by the pits. They control the revs. I don't see how a F1 driver can look after the engine aside from shifting it at the right time.

This is true but some drivers styles are definately harder on cars and tyres than others. At this level where the margines are so tight it can make all the difference. Please don't get me wrong I think Kimi is a fantastic driver, I just suspect the way he acheives his speed is harder on the car than others

vyselegend · Post 03 Jun 2006, 02:33

I think Mac Laren choose do reduce downforce a lot to withstand a power deficit in Spain.

If you look at the speed traps of each sector, KR was second fastest at the end of S1 (long straight) and S2 (the other straight between Campsa and La Caixa), and fifth or sixth in the twisty last sector. So they were quicker on straights than in corners, compared to the rest of the field, which probably mean less downforce. But their overall pace for a lap didn't match the competition.

I really believe they were in trouble then, and achieved the best they could with this low drag compromise. Had they run with the same downforce level as others, they would have been even slower, in my opinion...

peroa · Post 03 Jun 2006, 06:44

But one has to ask:

What power deficit?

The engine reved 19600 in the race in Monaco.

tetopelis · Post 03 Jun 2006, 15:55

well they have a new updated spec engine in monaco , which if i'm not mistaken they are bringing on to silverstone. and apperently i read somewhere based on the sound emitted by the engines during the test at ricard prior to monaco, mclaren's engine was clocking about 19800 rpm. be can't really be sure can we?..only the team knows the figure. and in any case they did not have that update for barcelona. and again its much more then engine that does the trick..in barcelona you can be quick..or shall we say in mclarens case not quick on the straight, but renault showed it this year and mclaren showed it last year. the quick way around barcelona is a car which is very well balanced through the quick corners.
mclaren may have the engine now..but thier aero and suspension needs work. hopefully the new parts the tested at barcelona this week will find thier way on to the car for the next race in give them better speed.

Vasco · Post 03 Jun 2006, 23:19

Mayb that Mercedes engine does not produce as much torque as other engines. Also, is it just me or do Mclaren have the least amount of parts 'stuck' to the car. Compare it to toyota or BAR and it looks clean which I think is a sign that the car is quite efficient aerodynamcally.

tetopelis · Post 04 Jun 2006, 10:08

hmmm..if so, how come kimi was complaining that the car was strugling through the fast corners..suspension related perhaps?

peroa · Post 04 Jun 2006, 10:10

If you look at Monaco, suspesion seems quite good.

Vasco · Post 04 Jun 2006, 14:48

Mclaren currently run on the harder michelin compounds as opposed to renault which is why they are better during the race as opposed to qualifying. I think it is because of this that they are revising their suspension since they need kimi and JPM right up at the front end of the grid to be fighting for wins.

tetopelis · Post 04 Jun 2006, 20:00

this i need to ask. is it just a matter of choice whether a team run a hard or soft compund tire according to races?..or is there some other parameter other then tire graining that effects the tire choice?..or is there more parameters from its suspension?

Vasco · Post 12 Jun 2006, 10:32

I think that its confirmed that Mclaren's lack of pace is due to its engine lack of power. Based on the british grand prix, Kimi's straight line speed was quite bad.