Red Bull RB8 Renault

[bhall]

Of course, the effect of the drag. I'm not an engineer, and I also sometimes have a problem translating my thoughts into words. (Waiters hate me.)

I still think the bottom would get more air, simply because that's the whole point of the high-nose cars.

Either way, it's fun to speculate.

[kilcoo316]

Hmmm.... its probably something simple like a splitter plate for cleaner flow to the front of the splitter and hence the floor/sidepods.


An F1 car is simply too slow to use radiator energy as some sort of quasi-ramjet. Nor does it do any use to suck significant quantities of air through the duct due to that air being removed from that which the floor/sidepods can use, along with associated high drag in a small duct. Design space for a larger duct would be an issue.

If any air to were reverse flow back up said slot, the sharp leading edge would mean a significant degree of separation would occur and subsequent turbulence would develop, which is definitely not desirable around the splitter/floor.



Forget about drag - no element on the nosecone contributes significantly to overall car drag.

[Adrian Newby]

I just thought of something else. Once the car reaches a certain speed, it stands to reason - to me, at least - that the system would become "inert," for lack of a better word, as the volume of the air becomes simply too much for the slits to handle. Then the bottom scoop would experience the same effect as the top one. It would then be almost as if neither scoop even exists, and neither would the drag from the stepped nose.

This would depend on the volume of the system, and the exit flow from it. Once the system became pressurized both scoops would become air dams.

But, once again, the drag from the hump doesn't really matter (or all of the teams would have at least rounded off the sides of the humps, right?).

What matters here is increasing the flow between the front tires so it gets to the front of the undertray. Knowing this, the best way to deal with the hump is to let air flow through it, so that air doesn't get bounced (or air dammed) into the flow trying to get to the front of the undertray.

Newey, in particular, is going to accept increased drag for downforce every day of the week.

[i70q7m7ghw]

RB8 exhaust in action

Nice pic!

Adrian is getting some "unsprung" downforce on that upper A-arm that is going straight into the rear wheel.

How so? My understanding was that suspension components weren't allowed to be shaped in such a way as to produce downforce..

[timbo]

How so? My understanding was that suspension components weren't allowed to be shaped in such a way as to produce downforce..

Even a flat sheet would generate lift having sufficient AoA. Depending at what angle flow hits the arm it surely can generate some force even with neutral profile.

[bhall]

@Adrian Newby and kilcoo316:

All valid points.

I read somewhere that Newey said the top slot is for driver cooling. I only believe that inasmuch as there are very few things better for driver cooling than a champagne shower on the top step of the podium.

[Adrian Newby]

[PNSD]

Bernoulli's principle.

An airplane wing has a larger curve on the upper surface than on the bottom. Imagine two streams of air, one going over the wing, the other going under it. The stream going over the top must go faster to get to the back of the wing at the same time as the stream on the bottom.

Thats not true.

Circulation theory. Look it up.

[kilcoo316]

An airplane wing has a larger curve on the upper surface than on the bottom. Imagine two streams of air, one going over the wing, the other going under it. The stream going over the top must go faster to get to the back of the wing at the same time as the stream on the bottom.

Please.

Don't go there.


Everyone on here should be bright enough to understand circulation, the horseshoe vortex system and the starting vortex if explained to them. No need for completely incorrect explanations for GCSE students.

[Adrian Newby]

@Adrian Newby and kilcoo316:

All valid points.

I read somewhere that Newey said the top slot is for driver cooling. I only believe that inasmuch as there are very few things better for driver cooling than a champagne shower on the top step of the podium.

I agree that any driver cooling is incidental to the main function of the upper intake. The whole "system" may very well be as simple as a hole from the intake, into the chassis, which then blows past the driver and out the cockpit opening. Or there may be ductwork to keep the rate of flow consistent and have it exit at a specific location coming out of the cockpit opening. The front corners of the cockpit opening/upper chassis radius have some interesting features...

[bhall]

Yeah, there are many possibilities. Whatever it is will be revealed at some point.

(Frankly, I'm just proud of myself for putting together a concept that makes even some sense.)

Adrian is getting some "unsprung" downforce on that upper A-arm that is going straight into the rear wheel.

I have a feeling someone is going to object to that. The rules classify any non-structural part of the suspension as bodywork. So, I think there's a good case to be made that the heat shield constitutes moveable aero.

[kilcoo316]

How in depth would you like to go?

In-depth enough so it is not completely 100% incorrect!

It was a simplified explanation for someone who seemed not to have been exposed to it before.

Diesel has been here since 2006 - he got a fair idea what is happening.




In answer to the original point, I believe the wishbones have a maximum allowable angle of slant (5 deg IIRC) from the chordline to ground plane. So they can generate some downforce; but due to the small surface area, very limited cambering and very limited AoA, it will be negligible in the grand scheme of things.

[xpensive]

RB8 exhaust in action

Have to admit, I just love that pullrod with its turnbuckle ride-height adjuster, as simple and useful as they come.

[Adrian Newby]

Yeah, there are many possibilities. Whatever it is will be revealed at some point.

(Frankly, I'm just proud of myself for putting together a concept that makes even some sense.)

Adrian is getting some "unsprung" downforce on that upper A-arm that is going straight into the rear wheel.

I have a feeling someone is going to object to that. The rules classify any non-structural part of the suspension as bodywork. So, I think there's a good case to be made that the heat shield constitutes moveable aero.

I was talking about the exhaust's effect on the front half of the upper A-arm itself, which is definitely a structural part of the suspension.

[bhall]

Oh, I wasn't specifically directing my comments on that at anything in particular. I quoted you just to transition my thoughts.